{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/qr4nk37p6w/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Dave, Santosh Kumar [and] Suman S. Dave"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/252/original/HPL_ArchiveBannerCDM2.jpg?1738348845","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["Foundation for Indian Studies"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://rightsstatements.org/page/CNE/1.0/?language=en\"\u003eCopyright Not Evaluated \u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003ePermission to publish or reproduce must be obtained from the Foundation for India Studies, Houston, Texas.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["Houston Public Library Special Collections"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Dave, Santosh Kumar ; Dave, Suman S. (interviewee)","Dave, Neal (interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2014-05-24 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["eng (primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["Santosh Kumar and Suman S. Dave discuss their early life in India, and their immigration to the United States in the 1970s. Santosh describes the challenges of obtaining a job and a driving license as a new immigrant. The Daves discuss how their family traveled to the United States in stages over several years. After living and working all over the United States, the Dave family settled in Houston, in the Katy area."]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["digital recording, sound"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject"]},"value":{"en":["Immigrants (topical term)","Houston (Tex.) (geographic term)","Oral histories (topical term)","India (geographic term)","Emigration and immigration (topical term)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Keyword"]},"value":{"en":["indoamerican"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Moving Image"]}}],"summary":{"en":["Santosh Kumar and Suman S. Dave discuss their early life in India, and their immigration to the United States in the 1970s. Santosh describes the challenges of obtaining a job and a driving license as a new immigrant. The Daves discuss how their family traveled to the United States in stages over several years. After living and working all over the United States, the Dave family settled in Houston, in the Katy area."]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://rightsstatements.org/page/CNE/1.0/?language=en\"\u003eCopyright Not Evaluated \u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003ePermission to publish or reproduce must be obtained from the Foundation for India Studies, Houston, Texas.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Houston Public Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Houston Public Library"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/252/original/HPL_ArchiveBannerCDM2.jpg?1738348845","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/210/347/small/open-uri20231027-1243258-uoy7vp_1698432694.jpg?1698418294","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - FIS-OH0024.mp4"]},"duration":3249.77987,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/210/347/small/open-uri20231027-1243258-uoy7vp_1698432694.jpg?1698418294","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-houstonlibrary.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/210/347/original/FIS-OH0024.mp4?1698418292","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":3249.77987,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347/transcript/60421","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347/transcript/60421/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":", but equally for the future generation of Indians, maybe after so many centuries, they will remember us and they will be thanking Mr. Krishna Vavilala particularly for initiating this project.\nND: Sure! Definitely! Definitely! Well, so before we get into the questioning of you being in Houston, how you got to Houston, I would like to know a little bit about your life in India before you came to the U.S. So what was your life working in India or before you even came here? \n\nSKD: In India I was very, very settled, very, very settled, beyond expectation. We had company provided quarters, I was living in the colony. And only the drawback was that the shopping center, village shopping center was 7 miles away. So every Sunday I had to go on a bike to bring the grocery, putting the grocery on both sides of the handle, cycle handle, and also on the back, and that was in hot summer, but we had to do it. But that was only the negative factor and otherwise we had -- lots of the domestic servants were available. We did not have to do any things like what we do over here; that was a plus point. \n\nAnd also, there was no layoff; we did not know what is layoff. So it was free from the layoff and all these things. In fact, I worked for 11 years over there. \n\nAnd it was a closed-knit community. Here we don’t know who is our neighbor, but there if somebody used to come there, they would ask who came to your house and they will invite us there. So that was the difference.\n\nAnd also, I did not have the luxury like over here, I had only a bicycle initially and later on we bought scooter and fridge and all, refrigerator and furniture. We had to wait month to month for salary. As soon as we accumulated money we used to buy it. It was not like over here, credit card system, borrow and buy. We had to get the money first and buy. So it required some patience to get these items and that was a very good life. \n\nND: Right, right! So when you say you had a bicycle for a long time how did you and mummy go around, if you wanted to go somewhere, like for the movies or something like that?\n\nSKD: She used to sit behind, the back side of the cycle and we used to go there. But when we got the scooter, my wife used to be behind, back, and two children right in front of the scooter.\n\nND: Okay. It sounds like a lot of fun. \n\nSKD: Yeah. And there was a peaceful mind, there was no fear of layoff or anything, that was a good thing also.\n\nND: So mummy, what was your perspective of life back then, how did you feel you were doing there?\n\n(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347#t=97.0,301.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347/transcript/60421/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":")\n\nSSD: I was happy there because the job is good, the house is good, the company paid everything, and it was good, servant and everything. I have two kids there. So I am happy.\n\nND: So what made you -- when were you thinking of coming to the U.S., like what made you think, okay, I should go to the U.S.?\n\nSKD: Okay, when I was studying in engineering college, in ’62 or something most of the engineering graduates and medical graduates had dream to go abroad and study. So I had a dream at that time. And moreover, I found many people, my class fellows leaving for abroad with the support of their parents or support of their in-laws or something, but then I thought, I will work, save money, when the money is there I will go there. \n\nBut I found later on that it was not feasible. So I worked for 11 years and suddenly President John F. Kennedy was elected as the President of USA and he opened the doors for immigration for Asia and also for India. And I took opportunity, advantage of that opportunity and that was a great turning point. Had I missed that opportunity I don’t know what would have been my situation. I would not be as happy as what I am here right now. And I fulfilled all my desires of my life so I am happy. \n\nSo I came in -- I got selected in ’71, they offered me visa in ’71, but I took advantage in ’74, three years after that, because I was in dilemma whether to come here or not to come here, something like that. And I was also thinking, I thought that why not to work for two years in USA instead of working for two years somewhere in India, anyhow I wanted to change my job, but there was great risk involved. \n\nSo much so, that my wife got angry. She tore down the passport. She said, nothing doing, we don’t have to go there. And then -- that’s why I took three years and finally my wife, she went to her mom’s place for delivery of my daughter Neelima. I resigned and one month after, in October ’74, on 20 October, ’74 I came to Chicago. \nND: You came here? Wow!\n\nSKD: And incidentally, I forgot to tell you that this year I am turning 75 and we had -- 75 on 31st March, and we had 50th Anniversary on 20th January. So we have a very good fruitful life. \n\nAlso, there were ups and downs in the life, we faced it bravely, and ultimately we are happy and we don’t have any desire whatsoever.\n\nND: I agree. I hope me and Drashti (ph) we can last at least 50 years as well, just like you guys. So I am very proud of that. \n\nSo around 1974 you came to the U.S., so mummy, what were you thinking, papa mentioned that you kind of tore up the passport and didn’t want to come here, what were you thinking at that time?\n\nSSD: Because the only reason if he comes to America, where I will stay? I have to say with my in-laws or mother’s place, and that place is in small town, village. And my kids are studying here, where he was working, it's an English school, and they don’t have English school, not many boarding schools, so I was worried how it will happen. They were in third, fourth grade, fifth grade -- third, fourth grade, second, third. So that’s why I thought, no, you cannot go so I tore the passport.\nSKD: But at the same time, I was confident because I moved with my father at number of places, I changed lots of school during my school career. I thought that when I could do that, why they cannot do this? That was my thinking and argument, when I could do this, they should be able to do that, and that’s why I was not worried. \n\n(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347#t=301.0,602.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347/transcript/60421/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":")\n\nND: So how did you get your passport back together, did you have to apply for another one?\n\nSSD: We just glued it.\n\nND: That’s great! At least they didn’t give you any trouble at the airport security for that. Okay, so now you are here and you are back at home in India, what were you thinking when papa was in the U.S. alone and you had three kids at this time; you had two older kids and one two month, did you feel scared? How were you feeling?\n\nSSD: I don’t feel scared, but I was worried, because how I am going to stay here, I know he is going to go there, and there are good times and bad times, but I am staying with my parents, my in-laws are there also in the same town, sometime I visit them. And I have small sisters; they are not married, so it's a very big family. So my kids are very comfortable there, it's a big house, they have everything. So that kind of thing I am happy. \nND: Yeah, you had a big family support.\n\nSSD: I had a big family. So there is worry and there is hope also that in future maybe it might be something good or whatever.\nSKD: You see the advantage of the joint family, because of the joint family I am here, you are in a good position and all children are in a good position, that was because of the joint family support. And right now we find families disintegrating. They don’t believe in joint family system.\n\nND: Right, right! No, that’s true. Everyone moves into their own --\n\nSSD: The lifestyle is like that.\n\nND: Yeah, lifestyle is like that, that is true. So since you are living at home in India, now you are in Chicago, right, so what was your first impression of Chicago when you landed? What were you thinking?\n\nSKD: Chicago, when I came I had overconfidence. I thought that since my qualification and experience have been recognized by government of USA and on the basis of which they gave me a Green Card I should not have a problem. But after going there I found something different. When you ask the people what was the best thing in the year, they used to say the year has passed, that itself is the best thing. That was a very bad situation. \n\nND: Bad economy.\n\nSKD: And I had also read about this and I used to read about this in the American magazines like ‘TIME’ and all these things in India also, but still I ventured to go there. \n\nAnd there also I learned the meaning of over qualification and under qualification. In India over qualification helps you to get a job, but in this country it does not help you. You have to match your qualification and experience with what they want, with the requirement. So I had a great problem. \n\nSo if I mentioned my Indian qualifications and foreign experience, they wanted domestic qualification and domestic experience, which I could not give. So I thought let me go for higher education, and there were two alternatives; either to do a master’s, spend two years waiting off the time and spend money, or do registration by exam, taking an exam,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347#t=602.0,839.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347/transcript/60421/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"university exam. \n\nSo I took leave, studied for 16 hours and took the exam and I passed in first attempt. And I had a great hope that that is going to help me, but when I went there to get the job with my P license, same problem was there. I did not have domestic experience; all I had was foreign experience. And when I went I had to compete with these young people, I was 40 year old at that time, so that was also bias. So I could not get a job, even with that. Some people advised me, do one thing, don’t show your P, don’t show your degree, just tell you are a high school graduate. \n\n(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347#t=839.0,889.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347/transcript/60421/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":")\n\nAnd I also wanted second shift job and that was possible only by working as inspector, quality control inspector in second shift job, other jobs were not available, and they wanted high school graduate qualifications, somebody should be able to read the blueprint and all these things and use all the measuring instruments, like micrometers, all these things. \n\nI went there. I told them I am a high school graduate. I could read the drawing, because I was an engineer, but they didn’t know, and I knew how to use the instruments. They hired me, and that was my job, second shift job. I was happy because I have the whole day for the job and that was the first step.\nND: That’s amazing! I mean, I would never think that you had to hide your degree and your qualifications just to find a job. I would never -- everyone always puts everything they can on a resume to make themselves better, but you had to do the opposite. \n\nSKD: Other instances are there, when I went in October ’74 there was a very big snowstorm, it was very cold. I did not have a car or anything. I had to walk in the cold to do my job. Even you could not say good morning to your fellow countrymen. Even you could not write","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347#t=889.0,970.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347/transcript/60421/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"application after going to office because it was too cold","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347#t=970.0,973.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347/transcript/60421/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"with warm water. You could not even talk, and all these things. \n\nThere were other things, once I was walking on the road with","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347#t=973.0,982.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347/transcript/60421/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":", for interview, the bus came, it threw this mud; mud means a mixture of ice and salt on my suit, I had to go back. \n\nOnce I was going in the bus and some address was given, street and number, but in Chicago the street goes through the number of suburbs and they change, they start again from 0 in different suburbs. I had the street number and address but I didn’t get that place so I had to go back. The reason being it was in different suburb, not in the same suburb.\nSo all these things I thought -- that was giving me a problem, then I thought why not to buy a car. So luckily I could buy a car in $500, the Chevy Impala, but I did not realize the trouble. I knew how to drive, I had the confidence of driving, but I was failing every time in the driving test and because of that I could not get a license, I could not get insurance, I could not drive the car. \n\nAnd I had the driving permit that required me to have some driver on the passenger side. I did not know anybody, any driver over there, so whenever I used to go to look for a job I had to see my car parked in the street, walking to look for a job. \n\nAnd finally, I thought I should bribe a few people. My countrymen told me don’t do that. If you do that and if you are caught, you will be deported. So I was scared also to give a bribe. Then they suggested me to go to driving school, and I told them, I know the driving, I have got confidence in driving, but I am not getting the driving license. You have to get me a driving license, that’s it. \n\nThen they told me, you should do some acting. For example, if they say take left turn, then you have to make your turn, left turn like this, and if you don’t make you fail. And nobody had told me about that thing. Then I did according to the instructions and I got the license.\n\nND: So then you got a car. Then you were able to look for a job. So this is all happened --\nSKD: And also, there were other things, the worst thing was matching the qualification and experience and that taught me to fabricate the resume. I used to know, the job is there, know the company, know the name of the product, learn something about that, fabricate the resume, even though you did not have experience on that, and that’s what I learned and I was getting the job like that only.\n\nND: Well, you have to do what you have to do to survive. That’s why you are here and that’s why I am here, luckily. I mean, that’s commendable that you made it here and you found out how to survive basically. \n\nSo all this time you are here, and mummy you are in India and finally your time has come -- actually how were you guys communicating in India when papa was here and you were in Damoh, right? \n\n(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347#t=982.0,1188.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347/transcript/60421/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":")\n\nSSD: Yeah, letter is the only way. He wrote me letter, then I reply him, but he was not there that time. He went to come to Houston, sometime different city, so the letter reaches, but he don’t get right away. It would take months. So somehow I don’t know what is going on, but it was like this.\n\nSKD: So what happened at that time my friend got job from Chicago to Houston and he invited me and told me, you come here, stay with me and look for the job, and I went there.\n\nND: Did you like Houston?\n\nSKD: I came to Houston and my other friend he went to California like that. So I thought that I should have gone to California. \n\nBut anyhow, I stayed here and after some time I got a job, but that was a designer’s job and that required drafting and all these things, good writing and all these things, and I was not good in drawing and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347#t=1188.0,1260.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347/transcript/60421/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in drawing. I knew how to do calculations but I was not getting that job. \n\nSo I got laid off, and what happened meanwhile I got interview call from Detroit on the fabricated resume. I did not have experience there, but I mentioned all six, and that required -- that was with Bechtel power plant. They wanted power plant experience. I had experience in the cement plant. I did not know anything about power plant. I made that resume, I work for a power plant, so and so, and these things. \n\nI went there, and luckily interview was taken by an Indian. I was very happy, oh, he is taking my interview. And then he asked me the deep questions, to which I could not answer, because I did not have experience. And finally I told him that I do not have experience actually thinking that he is Indian so he will sympathize with me and he would hire me, but I was not hired. So I had to go back to Chicago. Instead of coming to Houston I went to Chicago.\n\nND: So that’s where the letter --\nSSD: Yeah, I don’t know what is going on there. And then my father is always saying, let him earn money then you can go after one year, two year like that. So three year passes like this.\n\nND: And you are thinking he is making a lot of money?\nSSD: Yeah, he is making money, yeah. So then that’s the way, three years after I joined here.\n\nND: Yeah. And when you flew, you came here with all the kids?\nSSD: No, I came with my daughter. She is three years old at that time. So my visa was from Bombay, I went to Bombay, and we are flying from Bombay to New York. And he wrote me a letter, the letter was from Houston that somebody can help you, my friend can help you in New York to change the flight to Chicago. And I am confused, the letter is from Houston and my ticket is for Chicago. So I don’t know what to do; anyway I cannot do, whatever is going on I just flow with the time and everything.\n\nSo finally I reached to New York and then he wrote a letter that, you pass the gate, you come out of the gate and then friend will meet you there. Her name is something Patel somebody. But as soon as I came to New York, all the formality I finished, pick up my luggage, and I don’t see the gate. I thought gate is something like you can close and open. So I was staying there, I was sitting with my all luggage and Neelima and one big blanket I brought. \n\nThe friend was -- then he sent somebody from airport or something that send her, I am waiting for her. When I go outside he was a little bit irritated, because he waited almost hour or two hours maybe, I was sitting there. And people are -- those people are coming with me, they don’t want to come back. They go, I will come back, and they go, they never come back. \n\nThen finally he took me to -- and I have to change the airport. So the friend helped me to change the airport. I already missed the flight, he gave me the next flight, I came by next flight and I saw him in Chicago.\n\nND: In Chicago what were you expecting, what did you see when you saw him? \n\n(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347#t=1260.0,1499.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347/transcript/60421/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":")\n\nSSD: I was mad a little bit, because I don’t know where I am going, but then finally we sit in a car and --\n\nND: The car that he bought.\n\nSSD: Yeah, the car he bought, and I am happy that I have a car and it's going on then.\n\nND: Right, right!  Okay. \n\nSSD: And my daughter, she was scared. Every time he comes in front of her, she would hide. She did not -- it was three years. \n\nND: When did she feel more comfortable, what did it take?\n\nSSD: Slowly, slowly she is comfortable, but she is more comfortable when my other kids came, elder kids, Parag and Seema. \n\nND: And they came?\n\nSSD: They came on ’79.\n\nND: And they came separately because you guys were more settled at that time?\n\nSSD: Yeah, because he doesn’t have a good job at that time when I came. After I came, after six months he got a good job, engineering job. So we thought now we can call them. Then I am very happy that time.\n\nND: Now, everybody, they were here, this is 1979, right?\n\nSSD: Yeah, ’79.\n\nND: So now you guys are living -- are you having a hard time finding a place to live in Chicago with this big of a family?\n\nSSD: Yeah, yeah. It was an apartment, small apartment, but since I called my other kids, we need a big place. So we try to rent it, but nobody is renting with children in Chicago, it's very hard. So we bought a small townhouse, because I started working also, saved some money for down payment, and we bought a small townhouse in Skokie. \n\nND: Okay. So then now you are happy, you are settled?\n\nSSD: Then I bought the house, we move in, I am very happy that I have some place to live nicely, freely, and after one week you were born.\n\nND: Okay. I am happy about that too. So good! So now I guess everybody is starting to get settled, but papa, you always said that there is lots of layoffs here in the U.S. So what did you do when you were laid off? I know for me when I got a little bit older and I understood what a layoff meant I didn’t fully understand, but I knew I was a little bit happier because you were at home, both mummy and papa were at home. So to me I was a little bit happier, but I know it must have been a big struggle for you, and you kind of mentioned all the struggles you had in finding a job.\n\nSKD: The unemployment period, it was a full-time job for looking for a job. Looking for a job is also a full-time job. So you have to look for the advertisement, see what the company does, get information about the product, prepare for that, fabricate the resume accordingly, specific resume; it's not one resume for all jobs, and go for interview, something like that, that was another thing. \n\nBut my skin became thicken with that, means I knew that I am going to get this thing so I didn’t mind. And also, there was some saying that all immigrants, first immigrants, they have to pay their dues irrespective of the country of origin. So I didn’t mind, I thought I am paying my dues like that. So that’s it. \n\nAnd in between when I got -- first when I got laid off from Saginaw, Michigan, I thought this is a good blessing in disguise because that was a good opportunity for touring USA. So I bought tent, I had a car, and we had a carrier, and we decided to camp all around USA, because there was unlimited time. So we set for tour and we used to stop at every camping ground.\n\nND: And camping was inexpensive, right?\n\nSKD: Camping was not expensive, just we had to pay $10.\n\nSSK: $10, $7, someplace free also. \n\nND: And the whole family can stay? \n\nSSD: Yeah, whole family.\n\nSKD: So we could accommodate whole family in the tent. So our children, your brothers, sisters, they used to erect the tent in evening, in morning they will take it down. Mummy used to prepare khichdi. We are vegetarian you know. So khichdi; we had taken cooker and all these things. And there used to be a grocery store nearby and we used to start and move around like that. \n\n(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347#t=1499.0,1803.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347/transcript/60421/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":")\n\nSo like that we saw a number of places in Tennessee, Alabama, Huntsville, Alabama,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347#t=1803.0,1811.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347/transcript/60421/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sea World, like that, and Florida, we saw the Space Center. We also saw the Space Center in Huntsville. We went all the way up to Key West.  Then also we went to Disney World, came back, Gainesville, there was the ashram of Hare Krishna.  From there we went to Moundsville, like that we enjoyed, that was a good enjoyment, really. Nowadays people go to motel, they don’t know what is that enjoyment.\n\nSSD: And we don’t have AC in our car, because we are from North and North doesn’t require too much AC in the car.\n\nSKD: I didn’t buy AC car because I thought we are in Chicago we don’t require it, but suddenly we have to go in South. So anyhow, we had to face that trouble, but it was a good thing.\n\nND: Yeah, I don’t remember. I have seen the videos. It looks like we had a good, fun trip.\n\nSSD: Yeah, it was a fun trip, yeah.\n\nND: Good! You turned the negative layoff into something positive so that’s very commendable. So on this camping trip, you were still actually looking for a job, right, when you went to Florida and all these places?\n\nSKD: Correct! Because when you get unemployment benefit, you have to show that you are searching job, looking for a job, and I used to go and report to the Unemployment Office in Florida and elsewhere after two weeks that I am looking for the job, so that will be a proof, and because of that proof I get my benefit, unemployment benefit. \n\nMummy used to get angry, what you are doing, you are coming here for vacation or you are looking for a job?\n\nSSD: Because he would leave us on the camp ground and go. \n\nND: Okay, yeah. Well, at least we got to see the country.\n\nSSD: Yeah, once a week he has to do this.\n\nND: So you have seen a lot of places it looks like because of your job, going from one place to the other. I think I vaguely remember me and mummy and Neelima going to India I think when I was like 4 years old, 4 or 5 years old, and at this point of time we were living in Boston. And when we came back I think you had moved to Houston, and this was your final -- I think this was your final move and we were permanently going to move to Houston, but we were all surprised to that. \n\nSo what are some other places that you have been to and why did you go from Boston to Houston?\nSKD: Okay, that’s a good story. We used to live in Boston, but my job was in New Hampshire, Seabrook, 50 miles away. So I used to work in the nuclear industry and I had nuclear experience. At that time in Texas they started a new nuclear project, South Texas Nuclear Project, they were looking for nuclear engineers. \n\nAt the same time in Houston they were laying off people, petrochemical industry experience and primary experience engineers, but they were not selecting them, they wanted nuclear experience. So I got laid off from New Hampshire and I applied and I got a job. \n\nNow, the job was in Bay City, and we did not have good schools over there and we had good schools in Houston. And your elder brother Parag, they were in high school, so for the good school I selected Houston and that’s how we came here. \n\nAnd I was doing up and down from here to 90 miles basically, but luckily we had a carpool, we were five people, so we have to drive once a week. But we had to report at the parking lot at about 5 o’clock in morning and if you miss that you had to drive all the way alone so we had to be careful for that.\n\nND: To make it in time. So you settled in Houston for schools because my older brother and sister they were in high school at that time and so you wanted something more stable for them.\n\nSKD: Yeah. And we also took advantage of the economy. Economy was bad for other people but it was a blessing for me, because people were getting laid off and all these things, so people were foreclosing their homes. So they are selling their homes, they are giving their homes to the banks. So finally I got a very good deal, I bought a home from the bank, and we stayed in that home; still we have that home.\n\n(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347#t=1811.0,2089.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347/transcript/60421/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":")\n\nAnd actually you should have fond memories of that home, because my all children got married from that home. And when my son-in-law, he came from India, he got initial support. My daughter-in-law was here, she got support. So everything was accomplished in that home. Even grandchildren, they were born over there. So it was a good memory. \n\nBut now it became a very big home, so finally we have moved to Katy, it's a small home, but we like that home. We have got everything in that home actually; nearby lake, YMCA is very nearby, because I am fond of health, so you can go there, everything nearby. \n\nND: Yeah, definitely! Okay. Yeah, I definitely remember that house. I hope we never sell it; I have so many memories; I grew up there from childhood all the way --\n\nSKD: I also don’t want to sell, but eventually we will have to sell the home. But this home is also not bad. It has a backyard. It’s just like","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347#t=2089.0,2160.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347/transcript/60421/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"; swimming pool, lake nearby, YMCA nearby, where I go regularly, everything is nearby. What else you require? You don’t require anything.\n\nND: Right! So I guess Houston has been a good move. I mean, the weather is more easier to live with, it's similar to India, Indian weather. There is a lot of engineering companies here now, even though nuclear -- you originally came here for a nuclear engineering job, but now I guess oil and gas is more prevalent so there is lots of engineering jobs. So it's a good, stable place to be in, this is why you ended up here. \n\nBut I guess you have also worked in a lot of different places even after moving to Houston and settling in Houston. \n\nSKD: Yeah, that was a problem also. When I had nuclear experience that helped me, at the same time it did not help me, because when nuclear was going down, at the same time petrochemical and refinery was coming up. And when I was looking job in Houston, they were asking petrochemical and refinery experience, and when they found it was nuclear in the resume, they will throw it in the wastepaper basket. \n\nSo I had to fabricate. I had to hide all these nuclear experience. But they were also smart. They knew from the history of the companies that he has this nuclear experience, so I had a problem. So finally I got the first chemical job in Vermont, 100 miles, so I was doing up and down. That’s how I got the job, and from there I got a job in Houston.\n\nND: Very nice!\n\nSKD: But I still wanted to come to Houston because of the good India like climate so I was happy. \n\nND: Yeah, it's a good place. You have also I guess worked in London for a little while, Japan, Utah and --\n\nSKD: Yeah, my job took me to a number of places like Boston, Massachusetts, Saginaw, Michigan, Georgia, Anniston, Alabama, Utah. And whenever they wanted some person and they don’t get it, they hired me for a London job too, and also they hired me for a Japan job too and they sent me to Japan, because they were not getting people. Even though I did not have that experience for that job, but when the need comes, they will hire anybody. So I did not have experience in L\u0026G and they hired me for L\u0026G job and sent me to Japan.  \n\nND: That’s the way life works I guess. When you needed a job when you were first here you couldn’t find one; now you don’t need one and they keep asking you.\n\nSKD: Yeah, but that means whatever happens, happens for good. That’s what my mother used to tell me, and that has been the fact in my life. My life has been always progressive, and whatever happened, happened for good.  \n\nND: Yeah. No, definitely! I know you are very proud of your Indian heritage, I mean I do, and we all --\n\nSKD: What are you saying? \n\nND: You are very proud of your Indian heritage, Indian culture. So what are some things that you are proud of? What are some things you live by or you like to live by?\n\nSKD: Yeah, I am proud of the Indian culture, because this has been developed long back. Our rishis and munis; you may not understand the meaning of that, rishis and munis mean scientists, old scientists, they devised way of life for us; what food we should take and all these things, what should be your lifestyle. So our Indian culture and life is based upon that. People don’t realize that thing. They think -- they like Western culture, something like that, but I am still -- I like this India culture. So I have been following that, and particularly I like vegetarian. \n\nND: Vegetarianism?\n\n(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347#t=2160.0,2397.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347/transcript/60421/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":")\n\nSKD: Yes. You should not make your stomach the graveyard for the birds, fish, animals. Why you should make the graveyard? Even I am not in favor of taking eggs. Why you should? So that’s the thing I like. \n\nAnd also the joint family system. Our languages have got very good treasure. Luckily, I had to learn four languages, including Sanskrit. When they used to teach me Sanskrit I was thinking, why they are teaching me Sanskrit, it's an old, dead language, but now I understand and realize the importance and I thank God that they gave me opportunity to learn Sanskrit. \n\nAt that time I did not want to learn Sanskrit, I was thinking, why they don’t teach French, why they don’t teach German? I even bought books to learn French and German, something like that. But now I realize the importance of Sanskrit, but that importance, I don’t know whether it will be realized by second generation or future generation or not. \n\nEven the music; it's good music.\n\nND: Yeah, yeah. No, I agree. So what are some -- if you had advice to offer to people, what would be the advice you would offer to future generations, to your grandkids, to their kids, and on and on, what would you both -- what would you guys say? \n\nSKD: Okay, the first generation, they came here, they were hardworking, they were intelligent, they followed Indian lifestyles, all these things, and educated, and you see that they are very prosperous, and they are very prosperous in all this. \n\nSecond generation, they imbibe the same values to the second generation also, they are also doing well, because they followed this -- they imbibed the value of the Indian culture and all these things to the next generation and they followed.\n\nAnd if the second generation does not do that, it will be a bad thing, unfortunate thing. And that is not in our control, God knows, it is under God’s control, but it depends upon what the second generation does. \n\nThere are two living examples; one Indians living in West Indies; other Indians living in Africa. The West Indies people, they lost the culture, now they are trying to come back to Indian culture; now they realize they try to come back. But it was not their fault, they forgot, because they did not keep in touch with Indian culture, so they forgot. \n\nSee the African people, they kept in touch with Indian culture, they used to come here, they had contact with that, and they are doing very well, they are prosperous and all these things. But I should not blame them, because the people who went to West Indies, they were not accomplished people, educated or something; they were forcefully taken; when people went to Africa, they went willingly, but they maintained the contact, that’s how. \n\nSo in the same way future generations, if they don’t maintain the contact, you see what we are seeing right now, so they have to maintain the contact. \n\nAnd other thing is, health is wealth, and I think you can maintain the health if you follow the Indian ways of life, something like that, do yoga and all these things.\n\nND: Yeah, I agree. As I was growing up you always used to tell me -- I always remember hearing that one saying and I always remember you telling me put your 100% effort into whatever you do. If you don’t achieve your goal at least you know you have attained -- you have put all your effort, and you can't be sad about that, you have to move on, because you know you have put everything that you had into it.\n\nSKD: You have to put 100% effort, because if you are successful that is okay, that helps you, but if you are not successful, then you may repent -- if you don’t put 100% effort then you will repent, I should have put 100% effort. So anyhow it helps, you don’t become sorry for that. \n\nAnd the other thing is, whatever happens, happens for good. It is the case in my case. Life has been progressive always.\n\n(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347#t=2397.0,2695.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347/transcript/60421/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":")\n\nND: All right mummy, being a vegetarian is a big thing to papa, and because of you, you used to make food every single day at home for us, and I never even had to think about eating out food while I was growing up. So what is your advice to everybody? Do you have any advice to give to future generations?\n\nSSD: Yeah, when you stick together in a family, you will make your life good. Sometimes some sacrifices has to be made, but it will be for good, it is good feeling. Because if you cook home food, it makes your mind feel good also that you eat food like that. So it's good for economically and healthy and everything.\n\nND: No, you are right. Yeah, I guess when you first came to Chicago, at that time there was probably not much food to eat outside anyway?\n\nSSD: Anyway, yeah. That time nothing, but the things are available you can make it and eat it. \n\nND: Yeah. Okay. You know what, I meant to ask you about this, you said you have turned 75, papa turned 75 this year, and honestly you don’t look like you are 75 to me, what do you do to keep your health, to stay healthy?\n\nSKD: Okay, during unemployment, to remove the stress I was doing running, jogging, all these things, so that they may not be stress, and I did not have stress. And luckily I don’t have any health problems like blood pressure, cholesterol or any problem, no joint pain, no headache. I don’t know what is aspirin, Tylenol, I have not taken, nothing, except a little problem hearing, you know that, but there is no -- you cannot cure it by lifestyle or food habit, something like that. \n\nSo the best thing is to do --I did -- what I do in the morning, I do yoga exercise and all these things, Ramdev Baba’s Patanjali Yoga. And then I used to see that I do my treadmill, machine exercise, and also swimming everyday. And I have been taking food only at home. I have not eaten anything outside. \n\nYou might have seen me. I have never gone to eat pizza or anything, McDonald’s or anything like that. So I have been eating home food, and luckily I used to get because of mummy. So even outside, whenever I used to work outside, I used to take home food for three to four days. So I have been doing that.\n\nND: What about -- since after you retired, you have ran some half marathons and marathons?\n\nSKD: Yes, I have completed six half marathons and I was -- in my age group, I was in midway, even I did half marathon in January, this January, while 40 people finished their half marathon, I was the last, but anyhow I could complete the half marathon. \n\nEven I did my 10K race in Katy, in 2013; I was first, because very few people took part, and second time I was second in my age group.  In the half marathon there were about 22,000 people took part. So I still -- I believe that one should do that.  That’s why I don’t have any health problem.\n\nND: Definitely! I wish I could -- I haven't even ran one at this age, at my age; right now I am 34, and hopefully I can do the same thing you have done.\n\nSKD: Now, if you follow the same lifestyle, whatever I have been following, you will have that.\n\nND:  All right! I will do my best.\n\nSKD: And don’t worry about your future. I have got light mind and light body. Light mind means no worry and no fear, and light body means no physical problems, and if you have got light body and light mind, you don’t require anything.  It is just like heaven, what else you would expect? \n\nND: Yeah. Do you guys have any regrets coming to the U.S. or has it been actually helpful? You guys have been to India a few times, has that been -- actually you have seen a lot of India, do you think you would have seen that much of India if you actually just stayed in India?\n\n(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347#t=2695.0,3007.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347/transcript/60421/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":")\n\nSSD: No, never. Every trip -- we took at least -- I am living here 40 years and in India I live only 28 years, and we took 11, 12 trips this time, and we saw India everything, from North to South, East to West, everything we have seen.\n\nND: All the mandirs.\n\nSSD: Everything, yeah. We have been to Mansarovar also.\n\nSKD:  In Mansarovar, I did three days parikrama and it is very high.\n\nND:  In Tibet? It’s in Tibet? In China? \n\nSSD: Yeah.\n\nSKD: One person had to go back to the border because he had some problem with the blood pressure and all these things, he had to go back. So we did parikrama.\n\nND: Yeah. So those were things that you wouldn’t have-- you don’t --\n\nSSD: Even though I miss India, but I am happy here.\n\nND: Good! I am happy you guys are here. I am very happy to be here, to be born here, and to be here right now interviewing you guys.  Do you have any other comments or thoughts about your life or anything else?\n\nSKD: Time permitting I can give that, I don’t know how much is time? Okay, that means nothing, as you know the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347#t=3007.0,3094.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347/transcript/60421/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":", and that’s it, what I can say, that means -- and I hope that future generations will learn from this series and therefore understanding what makes up Indian ways of life, Indian culture and they follow the same thing.  \n\nAnd they should learn the lessons, if they don’t follow the lifestyle what will happen. And joint family system is always helpful. You have to sacrifice something, but your benefits are much more than expected.  You people are here because of the joint family system.\n\nND: No, I agree. I mean, doing this interview, asking you these questions, looking at these questions, honestly, I didn’t know all the struggles you went through. I knew you had to have struggled when you first came here, and you must have had to struggle when you came here, but I was the last born in our family, so by the time I was born we were a little bit more -- getting more settled so I never saw any of this. \n\nSo this sheds a lot of light on how your life was early on and how -- it gives me importance of how I need to continue to be progressive just like you have, instead of going backwards, and it gives me hope that anybody can do it. If you can come here from a country with, I think, I don’t know how much you said, I think you have told me before, you only had $8 in your pocket when you first came here and now you have a family that -- you are financially stable. \n\nSKD: I don’t have any desire. I don’t know what desire I should have. I have fulfilled all my dreams.  And actually I should thank Krishna Vavilala for giving this opportunity, and also, who is the founder actually, he started this institute, all credit goes to him, and also Indo-American Oral History Project. \n\nND: Thank you! Me too, I thank Indo-American Oral History Project for bringing us here, letting us share our story, and I hope anybody listening to this in the future will learn a little bit about what the struggles were early on for the first group of Indians that came here. I know I have. My dad is a first generation. I didn’t know everything. I just learned things myself. So thank you very much and I think that’s it!\n\nTotal Duration: 54 Minutes","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108902/file/210347#t=3094.0,3249.77987"}]}]}]}