{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/qn5z60dh3d/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Cramer, Edsel"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/252/original/HPL_ArchiveBannerCDM2.jpg?1738348845","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["Houston Public Library Special Collections"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://rightsstatements.org/page/CNE/1.0/?language=en\"\u003eCopyright Not Evaluated \u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003ePlease contact the Houston History Research Center, Houston, Texas. To request item: https://digital.houstonlibrary.org/reproductions-and-copyright\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Cramer, Edsel (Interviewee)","Perry, Veronica (Interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["May 01, 1975 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English (primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eEdsel Cramer went to High school in Houston, and studied art at the Art Institute in Chicago. He was known for his classically inspired portraits and landscapes. Among his portraits are that of Adelaide de Menil (daughter of John and Dominique), George W. Bush, Rice University President Malcolm Gillis, and most notably, Barbara Jordan; Jordan's portrait is currently housed in the Texas Capitol Rotunda.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["Videocassette tape, sound"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject"]},"value":{"en":["Houston (Tex.) (geographic)","Oral histories","African American men","African American artists","Painters","Painting","Artists","Art","Art Institute of Chicago;"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Sound"]}},{"label":{"en":["Custom Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["OH0032"]}},{"label":{"en":["Note"]},"value":{"en":["Original"]}},{"label":{"en":["Funding Note"]},"value":{"en":["This project was made possible in part by the Institute of Museum and Library Services [ARPML-250908-OMLS-22]."]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eEdsel Cramer went to High school in Houston, and studied art at the Art Institute in Chicago. He was known for his classically inspired portraits and landscapes. Among his portraits are that of Adelaide de Menil (daughter of John and Dominique), George W. Bush, Rice University President Malcolm Gillis, and most notably, Barbara Jordan; Jordan's portrait is currently housed in the Texas Capitol Rotunda.\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://rightsstatements.org/page/CNE/1.0/?language=en\"\u003eCopyright Not Evaluated \u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003ePlease contact the Houston History Research Center, Houston, Texas. To request item: https://digital.houstonlibrary.org/reproductions-and-copyright\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Houston Public Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Houston Public Library"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/252/original/HPL_ArchiveBannerCDM2.jpg?1738348845","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/215/401/small/open-uri20231108-480-ctnu9p_1699461910.jpg?1699443914","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - OH0032EdselCramer.mp4"]},"duration":3834.198,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/215/401/small/open-uri20231108-480-ctnu9p_1699461910.jpg?1699443914","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-houstonlibrary.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/215/401/original/OH0032EdselCramer.mp4?1699443909","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":3834.198,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["OH0032EdselCramer.vtt [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nTesting one, two.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2.51,4.37"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Testing one, two, three.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=5.36,7.74"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Testing, testing one, two, three testing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=7.76,11.78"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"This is the beginning of an interview with Mr.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=14.39,17.77"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer. May 1st, 1975.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=17.77,20.84"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Okay, I know we've talked about before, but would you tell us, tell me\nat least, a little bit about your background and training?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=22.25,31.82"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nYou know, when I started out in Houston, sort of, uh, by sheer\naccident, I didn't have any kind of idea of what it was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=32.61,42.14"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"being an artist would entail, you know, I didn't go to art school, I\nwent to art school later, but not right away I didn't go.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=43.36,49.07"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I went to the high school here in Houston.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=51.02,53.33"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nWhich, which one?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=54.53,55.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nHouston, Jack Yates High.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=55.0,56.79"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nOh.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=56.79,57.77"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nAnd they didn't have, they didn't teach art.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=57.77,60.63"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That wasn't on the, uh, curriculum or whatever.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=60.63,63.73"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They had, uh, what they call, um, mechanical drawing and, but there\nwas no, no encouragement,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=64.62,74.48"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that is in high school, except through teachers who'd say, Hey, you\nwant to make a poster for me?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=75.2,80.1"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Or draw some things on the board?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=80.69,84.75"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You, know, so I just started to draw and, uh, everybody who saw that I\nhad this ability just used it, you know what, what I mean?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=84.75,91.79"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What ever you know. And I remembered that something always irritated\nme about, uh,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=91.79,100.03"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"being asked to paint, you know, I have some, for some reason, I had\nalways the impulse to say, No.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=101.89,108.85"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I always wanted to say, No, I don't feel like it, or I don't want to.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=108.89,112.3"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But I would always excuse myself, well, you know, I don't have the\npaper, or I had my hands on this; but it was always that I never\nwanted to.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=114.87,121.06"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I think that that stayed with me, and I think that probably all\nof the so-called creative, uh, costs, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=121.06,129.62"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You ask the performer to sing, and it was kind of embarrassing, you\nknow.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=131.01,134.22"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nHm mmm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=134.3,134.31"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nTo have to get up and perform on command, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=135.09,139.36"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And that's what it was, and I just resented this being asked.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=139.36,141.7"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Had, had I, I think that probably, uh...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=141.7,149.71"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, what really came over to me, was that, when I, I would, for no\nreason, no apparent reason, I just felt like painting","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=149.71,158.72"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":", you know. Some day's and other day's I didn't.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=159.86,162.72"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And those days when I really felt like it, it was like, um, I guess it\nwould be like a housewife getting the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=162.72,172.14"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"desire, the itch to do spring cleaning, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=172.14,175.02"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I was just...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=175.02,175.13"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nRight.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=175.21,176.13"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nWe just...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=176.13,176.91"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nNot everyday feeling.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=176.91,177.27"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\n...do it until you felt like it, you know, and you just...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=177.42,180.9"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But when you felt it, well it was the most satisfying thing you could\never do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=180.9,183.54"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, uh, I think the question was, what my background","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=183.54,193.46"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=194.6,195.01"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nHm mmm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=195.01,195.02"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nWell, in high school it was just practically nothing, except for\nthese things that I mentioned.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=195.02,199.37"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But somehow my mother went to Chicago, to a rural spare, way back in\nthe '30s.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=201.28,208.95"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And she came back with the idea that this art institute in Chicago\nwas the most beautiful and, you know, place, and that she saw these\nmost beautiful paintings, and she told me all about it, and it was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=210.03,219.74"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"kinda of a...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=219.74,223.87"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to my imagination, the place to go, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=223.87,226.13"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nHm mmm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=226.43,227.13"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nAnd, uh, in addition to that the museum people here saw a whole batch\nof, you know, drawings I took over there, and they suggested the, uh,\nmove to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=227.94,237.21"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Chicago as a place study to study, but they didn't mention any\nschool, and, uh.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=238.81,241.18"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":".. I have a plan, that I wanted to be an illustrator, you know, so I\nwent to, uh, some of these commercial art schools that look real\nslick, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=244.86,253.61"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, uh, they have some restrictions in, you know, about Negro's\nstudying art.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=255.38,260.22"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so as a result of all of that, my choice was the art institute,\nwhich is, is the only school that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=261.63,271.63"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"didn't have this restriction, you know, on Negros.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=271.63,273.01"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, it was a blessing in disguise, I, I really got more out of that\nschool than I would have ever gotten out of the sweat commercial\nschools.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=277.02,284.49"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nRight.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=284.98,284.99"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nI saw great paintings and on the spot, they have the combined, you\nknow, like museum, and then they have the schools in the basement or\nin the back.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=287.4,296.21"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And while you were a student there, and studying there, you could\nalways take out and go upstairs and look at what Picasso did, or what\nRembrandt did, or how, you know,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=298.1,307.6"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the old Masters, like El Greco, and they have, this great collection\nthey have there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=308.13,313.48"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And you could benefit from the art, you know, on hand, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=314.73,316.17"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What you call the genuine article, other than printed reproductions.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=316.17,325.81"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You didn't have to take off and go to, go to the museum, you know, on\nside trips, and.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=328.78,333.86"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":".. And I don't think that I realized at that point with a great\nschool it was, it was just so, so there and was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=336.48,344.64"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":".. I don't have anything to compare it to, you know, it was just...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=346.02,347.42"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But, after meeting people like, um, in the Navy, there and around\nChicago, everyone said, Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=347.42,356.63"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"New York is the place, you know, that everything is big there, and,\nand it's the place to make it, you know, they're saying, you should\ngo there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=357.26,364.35"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well when I did go to New York, and it was the place, and it was an\nexciting city, none of the art schools ever","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=364.35,374.21"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"measured up to the Art Institute, none of them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=374.21,377.32"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I mean, the only thing that did measure up would be the, uh, museums\nand the galleries, and just being in the city itself and, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=378.36,388.36"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"having such a enormous collection of, of museums and galleries that,\nuh, to, uh, you know, look into.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=388.36,398.05"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The Whitney, The Crypt, uh, you name it. You know, The Metropolitan,\nthe Museum of Modern Art, all of these were central, centralized","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=399.08,409.02"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and, you know, located in New York City.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=409.03,411.07"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the Great Galleries with very, very tremendous people like\nRosenberg's, and, um,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=411.07,418.38"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Rosenstein's, and, um.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=420.7,421.76"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":".. Who was this very famous, uh, French artist with the, uh...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=424.46,427.89"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He, he as an old man started to draw a little, little rabbits\nsometimes that...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=427.89,436.71"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Matisse.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=436.71,437.25"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nHm mmm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=437.25,437.55"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nThat Matisse guy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=438.0,439.25"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nYou mentioned...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=440.57,441.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nAnyway.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=441.0,441.52"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\n...the Navy, in between.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=442.52,443.78"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Did you go to the Navy after you went to the Art Institute?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=443.81,447.59"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nOh, yeah. Well, this is what happened.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=447.74,449.09"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I went to the art institute and I was there for about a semester, or\na year rather, and I was drafted around nineteen years old, and was\ninterrupted, my art career.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=449.1,457.51"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But being in the Great Lakes, which is very close by Chicago, I was\nable to come in nights, and kind of continue.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=460.9,463.68"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But, um, the Navy helped me in a lot of ways, it made","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=463.68,463.86"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"me more universal.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=475.8,476.85"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Cause, uh, before I was probably more 'ivory tower' I was art minded.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=478.3,485.17"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art was my world, my life, my friends were all artists, and that,\nthey were.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=486.15,490.1"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":".. and so that can make you kind of a weird kind of person at heart,\nyou know, to adjust to real life, you know, so that the Navy, I was\nprobably the, the weirdest guy there cause that,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=491.52,501.32"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you know, everybody else is off the street and everything.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=503.68,507.53"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I learned a lot of things, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=509.66,512.85"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I was enjoying this, trying to get into this Navy life.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=512.85,514.59"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But when you, once they discover that you have this talent for\ndrawing, they put you right away back into that little...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=514.59,523.84"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"world, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=523.84,526.5"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And they, instead of marching around, why don't you, why don't you\nsit here and draw, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=526.5,530.7"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So this is what happened, this utter... You know, again, like in high\nschool, just using you, you know, because you have this","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=531.12,541.04"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"talent. You know what it...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=541.12,543.96"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nWho can do, you know, what they use you for in the Navy","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=543.96,547.1"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nThey just use you likes, social like in the, real life.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=547.7,552.29"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They want to flatter a naval officer, they'd, they'd send you over\nthere and do a portrait of him, you know, as a sort of, uh,\ncompliments","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=552.83,562.07"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=562.9,563.13"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nRight.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=563.13,563.43"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\n...uh, so-and-so. And, uh, they would impress them with, with the art.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=563.43,568.36"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Would be like if I was a musician, I could be playing for an\nofficer's dance.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=569.77,573.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nRight.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=573.0,573.31"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nOr I could, you know, get to entertain the Admiral, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=575.31,579.33"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nHm mmm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=579.33,579.34"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nSo this is... It gave me an opportunity to practice with my craft, but\nit was also a...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=580.7,587.63"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So I'd have special privileges, I didn't get very much rank for this,\njust special considerations, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=589.83,596.09"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And they took care of all these, you know, special people, in the\nway that they give you special, uh, quarters to live in, liberty\nevery night, stuff like that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=598.4,604.38"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nYou went to New York after you left the Navy?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=611.52,613.98"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nYeah, that's right. After I left the Navy I, I went to Hawaii, I\nbecame kind of a...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=613.98,617.65"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, you know, and I had the G.I.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=622.99,624.16"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Bill, and, uh, all the money I saved the Navy and I took off from New\nYork city.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=624.16,629.14"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, uh, I had Chicago behind me, and I was able to adjust to big\ncities.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=629.14,636.5"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I mean, I wasn't, like, out of the woods, you know...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=637.72,639.8"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nRight.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=639.8,640.18"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\n...I was, you know I could, I know how to maneuver in the city\nwithout being like a, um... So everybody thought, well I was a New\nYorker, they didn't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=640.18,649.98"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"know. And, uh, what gave me this edge was, was the, uh, life in\nChicago.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=649.98,658.33"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Because I did some pretty dumb things in Chicago, I mean I didn't\nknow that, you know, I didn't even know how to come in out of the\nrain, you know, when the, uh...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=659.73,661.14"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The fella says to me, Well, when you go to Chicago, he says, Be sure\nto get yourself in an elevator.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=669.77,676.44"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hell, I thought he meant, you know, an elevator like you go up from\none building to another.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=676.48,680.43"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He say's, Those cab drivers will cut your throat.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=680.43,685.01"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I thought he meant, you know, we all did it, but...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=685.01,689.23"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nWhat did you do when you, um, got to New York?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=689.23,692.75"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You said, you know, you were saying before, it didn't really compare\nto Chicago's as far as the school was concerned.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=692.78,699.59"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nWell the schools, I don't think the schools were ever any better in\nNew York, I don't think they were as good.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=699.59,706.5"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"In Chicago, for me, I'd say, at a very delicate age of seventeen, or\neighteen, I had a, somebody looking after me; they cared","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=706.5,716.38"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"whether I came into class.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=716.44,717.88"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They had a person ask me, and would call you all in; and making,\nmaking sure that I, I did homework and, you know,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=717.91,727.13"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that was like a school. But New York is more like, uh, if you had a\nworkshop, and you paid the money, after that nobody cared whether you\ngot there","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=728.99,737.17"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"or not. But the fellas with the G.I.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=739.19,741.91"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Bill, they had to report, you know, because they couldn't just sign up\nand collect the money.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=741.91,749.01"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But once you had answered to role, nobody cared whether you were\nmaking it in the grade, and the if you were, uh, goofing off, or\nhaving yourself a beer, you know, e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=749.01,758.59"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"very night and just, once you answer to muster you could take off, if\nyou answer to role call, then you would just leave, you know, and...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=761.73,766.02"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So really, they didn't care, it wasn't, supposed, in that sense, if\nyou were not dedicated or grown up enough, you might just squander\nyourself and your time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=772.39,780.64"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But it was... Because of the Art Institute, and because of Chicago, I\nhave a foundation that I feel was necessary, you know, to have.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=784.43,789.93"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I could go there, and work within my own, you know, work plan,\nand I wouldn't have to have somebody looking over my shoulder, and I\nthink that this","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=789.93,799.66"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"helped me, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=805.66,807.02"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And soon I realized what New York was, in the way of a school was the\nmuseum, and the whole city was a school,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=808.89,818.76"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=818.76,819.64"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"know. In other words it wasn't just a, uh, the building or the\nclassrooms. Have  ever been to New York?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=828.94,829.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nNo, I haven't.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=829.0,829.4"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nWell, you see, this is, this is really an experience.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=830.4,833.48"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It's like, uh, it's like going to Europe for the first time, and once\nyou go to Europe, you realize how much New York has tried, has tried\nto become a European city.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=833.48,840.56"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You know, in the sense that it's, most of the architecture of old, n\not today, but those early, early concepts of, of buildings were all\nbased on European buildings, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=850.45,858.31"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"apartments were built like European apartment buildings.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=860.65,863.27"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, uh, the whole atmosphere, you know, of indifference is, you\nknow, like you'd find in Paris","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=863.27,873.04"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":", busy busy, and...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=874.45,875.83"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nYeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=875.83,876.13"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nAnd a lot of the sophisticated people, you know, who where in Ballet\nand the Symphonies, and...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=878.05,884.69"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"All had their European ties, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=884.69,884.91"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nHow long did you stay in New York?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=890.3,891.89"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nUh, from '46 until about '51.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=892.52,895.4"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So that's, uh, you know, five years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=896.63,900.57"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nDid you come back to Houston then?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=900.57,902.37"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/158","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nNo, I left New York city, got on a bus, and went all the way to San\nFrancisco.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=902.53,905.95"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/159","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I had, I had some money and I thought, I'm going to get a long bus\nticket, you know, and I just enjoyed watching the length of the\nticket,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=907.67,917.18"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/160","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you know. I thought, Well this will never, you know, I'll never use\nthis stuff, I could tell, Art Institute Chicago, and this place like.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=917.63,926.05"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/161","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And it was absolutely unannounced I showed up on the West coast.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=926.05,928.69"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/162","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"My con, concept was, that I've been in New York and I have talked\nart, I been there, and I've gone to museums, I related to people who\ntalked nothing but","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=931.08,940.89"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/163","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"art, talked about painting, talked about what they're going to do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=940.89,943.26"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/164","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And everybody talk, talk, talk, talk; over coffee and philosophize\nabout art, and what they be when, and where art must, was supposed to\ndo, and what the world was waiting for, and all that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=944.51,952.03"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/165","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So I thought, instead of talking and planning all this, thing to do\nwould be to find some place that had not been","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=958.03,967.73"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/166","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"so, you know, saturated...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=968.79,972.69"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/167","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nYeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=972.69,972.7"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/168","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\n...and operate there, you know, as a...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=974.07,975.43"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/169","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I don't know, some virgin place I thought. And I thought that\nCalifornia would be that sort of place, but they were busy","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=975.43,985.16"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/170","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"trying to become New York.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=985.16,986.79"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/171","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You know, they were busy, anything New York, and, and pretend, you\nknow, in trying to, you know, be everything that New Yorkers had been,\nthe","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=986.79,996.71"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/172","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"New Yorker attitudes and stuff. But, uh, then, it still, you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=997.64,1007.53"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/173","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"know, gave me a chance to do things I never would have done before,\nlike go out on the street and paint, you know, like, uh, set up your\neasel and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1007.53,1016.49"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/174","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"... That was really a fine experience. Because that, you know, I\nfound that there's people on the street, the kids, all love to see\nwhat you were","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1018.76,1028.48"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/175","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"doing. They'd crowd around and they would give it some comment, and\nthen would keep each other from interfering with me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1028.48,1036.25"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/176","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They'd say, Hey, don't stand too close to him, they, let him work,\nyou know, get out of his way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1037.37,1041.88"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/177","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You, he can't see through you and, you're blocking his view, you\nknow, and they'd go on like that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1042.18,1046.03"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/178","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was very fine, I thought that, you know, it was a...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1048.78,1050.91"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/179","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I felt like I was making history, and we did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1055.25,1057.91"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/180","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, everybody, I think every painter, at that time, they used to\ntalk about what Picasso, and van Gogh, and all the, uh,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1059.64,1069.14"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/181","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"famous painters had, and found some kind of fellowship and a, sense\nof a colony, that they all, kind of,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1070.16,1077.77"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/182","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"working together, and preparing themselves, and comparing thoughts\nwith each other, and criticizing each other, and giving each other\nstrength and all that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1082.27,1089.29"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/183","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And it was a real, you know, spirit of com, camaraderie of whatever.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1089.29,1097.56"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/184","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And it was fine, and I think everybody was trying to do that here,\nbut...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1098.78,1100.45"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/185","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And it was a part of the romance, you know, the romance of being a\nreal painter.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1105.67,1107.05"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/186","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You know, you have this style a little bit, or you have a, become,\nyou know,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1107.05,1115.07"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/187","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"dedicated and, you know, sappy and all.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1117.44,1120.62"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/188","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You know, just call it what I thought was the myth, of an artistic\nthing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1120.62,1125.14"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/189","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And San Francisco, believe it or not, is a, is a very","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1126.44,1136.19"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/190","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"romantic city, even today, in spite of all the, you know, modern\nthings, you know, like, uh, they have an underground","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1136.19,1137.5"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/191","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"railway system, and they have jet airlines, and all that, and TV, but\nthey still have the terrain, and there's a city that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1147.55,1157.51"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/192","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"has a, is set kinda over the seven or so hills are very famous.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1157.51,1161.96"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/193","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dog Hill, Russian Hill, and Twin Peaks, and few other hills.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1161.96,1166.06"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/194","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And this, this is a still a part of the...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1166.06,1171.35"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/195","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The Golden Gate is still a romantic site, I mean, look at 'em, and\nfeel thing's, you know, Cork Tower, Fisherman's Walk, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1171.35,1181.32"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/196","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"all these things are still very satisfying to tourists, and to people\nwho live there are.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1181.32,1187.34"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/197","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They probably are living there, you never get over, um, you know, the\nthings are are....","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1187.34,1193.63"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/198","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tourist people would do, you know. You never get tired of running\nacross the bridge.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1193.63,1198.35"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/199","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You know, you just.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1199.69,1200.73"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/200","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":".. I don't know, you don't get used to that. And, uh, the fog, you\nknow, coming, rolling in, you can see it just like a monster, that's\ngrowing right through the bridge; on the Golden Gate, it just comes","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1208.71,1211.75"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/201","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in. And it looks like a low heavy cloud, you know, the sun shining on\nit,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1211.75,1221.7"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/202","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and you will see it, and all of a sudden it's covered everything, you\nknow, and you're inside of it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1221.76,1224.81"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/203","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the sounds, you know, around the bay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1228.26,1230.38"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/204","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Very, very romantic.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1230.38,1230.7"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/205","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1241.19,1241.49"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/206","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nOkay. That's fine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1241.65,1242.32"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/207","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nIt's okay there?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1243.0,1243.68"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/208","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nHm mmm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1243.68,1244.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/209","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nSo, um, after that, San Francisco was, um...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1245.48,1251.99"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/210","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I told you about New York and how New York people were in attitudes,\nand San Francisco made you think of New York.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1251.99,1261.96"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/211","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Says, well, you know, everything you think of was comparing it to what\nhad, you had done in New York City.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1261.96,1268.5"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/212","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So what happened was that I had an opportunity to take a drive back\nto New York City, had a fella wanted me to help them","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1268.68,1278.39"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/213","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"drive, and I didn't.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1278.4,1279.48"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/214","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So I took off and I went back to New York City.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1280.41,1282.93"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/215","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And that's the way I got over it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1283.77,1285.27"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/216","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think you have to leave it, become, you know, out of your mind with\nhomesickness for New","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1285.3,1295.01"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/217","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"York and then go back and then once you do that, it's all over.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1295.01,1298.85"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/218","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It's like going back in a marriage, you know, you get a divorce and\nget remarried, and then you're finally over it, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1298.85,1308.69"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/219","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well anyway, I'm over it. And, uh, so what I did one cold day in New\nYork City, I decided that I was going to come to Houston, where it was\nwarm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1310.67,1320.23"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/220","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I did, and I swear it was like the trees, I'd never seen in my\nlife, it was just so beautiful to me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1320.23,1326.24"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/221","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Every tree on the block was just, you know, I could make a\nconversation about it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1327.05,1334.61"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/222","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was just, in the sunshine shining on these trees, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1334.61,1338.96"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/223","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"In the winter, they're kind of...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1338.96,1342.58"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/224","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"bare and all you see is those stems and the branches, you don't see\nany leaves.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1342.58,1348.47"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/225","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The skeleton of the tree is what I'm talking about.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1348.89,1351.23"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/226","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And it was just beautiful, and I raved about the skeletons, and the\ntrees, you know, until the spring, and then finally, the hot summer.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1351.47,1358.79"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/227","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was really, uh, anyway, what do you want to know about Houston?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1360.95,1364.76"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/228","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nOkay, what did you do when you got back to Houston?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1364.81,1366.86"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/229","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Did you continue to paint or just what did you get into once you got\nhere?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1367.34,1372.78"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/230","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nWell, the first thing I did, I went over to Texas Southern University\n.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1373.49,1378.23"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/231","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I met some very influential people; the very first day I got back.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1378.33,1383.62"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/232","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, uh, I had two paintings with me from New York City, and this\nwoman who's, has a very large, large, um,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1383.62,1392.33"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/233","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"collection of paintings said, Send for the rest of your things and I\nwant to see all of them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1393.2,1399.14"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/234","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I packed them all up, took them over River Oaks, and just, she\ninvited all of her friends over to see these just gobs of every sort\nof thing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1399.14,1408.95"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/235","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nWould you mind telling me who she, who she was?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1409.31,1410.75"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/236","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nWell, her name was McAshan, but she's not involved with the art world\n, she's just simply got money.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1411.5,1419.33"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/237","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, uh, she got me commissions here and there, and introduced me to\npeople.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1419.33,1423.8"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/238","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And it was, you know, I was off and going, you know, in Houston.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1424.79,1428.78"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/239","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But this didn't help me because it was, it was, um, people like,\nwithout all this money got frightened away from me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1429.32,1437.83"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/240","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They thought, Well, if he's painting the McAshan's, and this, and the\nother rich people, we can't afford him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1437.84,1443.99"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/241","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So that's, that was the outcome of my Houston, you know, stay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1444.95,1450.17"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/242","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I've been either to, to overpriced, or under, you know, and in most\ncases, I was underpriced for the rich people and overpriced for the\npoor","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1451.07,1460.7"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/243","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1460.97,1461.6"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/244","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nDo you think, uh, Houston is a good place for artists?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1462.98,1467.66"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/245","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Was it, you know, just for an historic...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1467.66,1470.18"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/246","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nWell I, yeah, art, as it, as you say, in the sense of the purest\nsense, the art, artists, you know, Houston or any place is","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1470.96,1480.89"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/247","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"good, you know, it doesn't matter.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1480.89,1483.82"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/248","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But if you're talking about the money, the money is here, and the\nopportunity, and the need is here, you know, the need for an","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1483.83,1493.73"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/249","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"artistic thought, or imagination and all that is certainly here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1493.73,1499.35"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/250","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And all the people that I know could stand a, to, you know, benefit\nfrom, from more art, you know, rather","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1499.35,1509.09"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/251","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"than less art, I think.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1509.09,1510.47"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/252","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So Houston is, I think, an excellent city for a career.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1511.04,1517.85"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/253","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nWhat, do you have a particular style which you use in your artwork, or\nis there a style you feel, particularly at home with?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1518.81,1526.1"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/254","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nWell, my style has sort of evolved.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1526.85,1529.28"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/255","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I feel like when I'm out of my style, I know I'm not working in, in\nthe right vain, I've tried different things like, um, we've, if I've\ntried to do abstract painting, uh,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1529.28,1539.24"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/256","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"some kind of, I don't know, creative, non-objective, sort of, you\nknow, approach to something.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1540.35,1550.31"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/257","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I would feel that while I'm doing it, I'm intellectualizing about it\nand I'm not really in it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1550.31,1559.22"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/258","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"spiritually, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1560.06,1561.26"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/259","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, whenever I am away from all my true, so-called spiritual thing, I\ndo find myself, you know, it's a sort of.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1561.92,1570.14"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/260","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":".. uh, what I call...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1572.84,1576.4"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/261","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"intellectualizing with it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1576.4,1577.88"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/262","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So my style is, I have to feel it, I have to feel natural about it, I\nhave to feel like I'm doing what I feel is beautiful and what's\nnatural for me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1578.87,1587.96"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/263","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I do have, you know what I call, it's realistic, I think, and, if\nyou could describe it that way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1588.68,1594.62"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/264","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nDo you feel as a Black artist that you have a special message, you\nknow, you need to communicate to the world and to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1595.55,1604.76"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/265","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"society?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1604.76,1605.63"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/266","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nWell, not really. I just think of myself as a person, first of all,\nand I...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1606.29,1610.37"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/267","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And that sounds dumb and kind of, you know, put on.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1610.64,1613.31"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/268","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But I do feel that, number one, I've never felt, uh, except for when\npeople talk about it,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1613.31,1622.31"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/269","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"this, this, this Black feeling you're talking about, I've never\nreally felt that, and I, um, in any,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1622.85,1632.06"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/270","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you know, sense of food, or what I say, or how I think about\nsomething, or what my reaction to things would be.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1632.78,1640.49"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/271","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I've never related that to, you know, spiritual blackness, uh, my own\npersonal blackness.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1640.85,1650.14"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/272","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I've, I've never felt that, that I could put my finger on anything\nthat was Black","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1650.14,1660.11"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/273","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in, in spirit, even.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1660.18,1661.64"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/274","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You know, like I could say, I've made comments about individuals and\nfriends of mine, you know, like I'll say something like","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1662.39,1671.51"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/275","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that, uh, I'm generalize, I'll say maybe, uh, White people are very\norganized, you know, I'll say some","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1673.31,1682.37"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/276","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"outrageous thing like this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1683.24,1684.77"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/277","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, some, uh, White people are very organized, but not all White\npeople, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1685.25,1691.67"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/278","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, and likewise, if I went on to cover all these things, like I\ncould say, Black people are unorganized, and it's not all of 'em, you\nknow, I'd have to verify","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1692.54,1702.54"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/279","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1702.57,1704.52"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/280","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"let...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1704.52,1704.66"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/281","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nGreat.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1705.51,1705.68"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/282","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nThis sense of organization, you know, this completeness, this sense\nof, of being exacting and, and...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1706.53,1715.58"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/283","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Somebody was telling me earlier today that, that somebody who worked\nin sculpture was never really, uh, successful because","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1715.58,1725.58"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/284","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"they couldn't do two things the same way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1725.58,1728.22"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/285","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You know, like, uh, if you have two things to do, like if you had\nabout five children to paint, I couldn't, I'd get tired of the project\nbefore I could get all five painted; because no,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1729.39,1739.2"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/286","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"because nobody would look alike.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1740.26,1741.69"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/287","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I mean, I couldn't get my, my mood or my style to stay put for five\nheads of five, uh, people in a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1741.69,1751.38"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/288","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"family. I'd bore myself before I got to the end of the five.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1751.38,1756.36"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/289","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So this, uh, repetition, you know, and this doing it over-and-over is\nwhat I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1756.39,1766.08"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/290","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"find might, might be lacking in my, my makeup.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1766.08,1770.67"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/291","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I find that it, it works against my whole, you know, success,\nbecause it is, I'm compelled to change it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1770.67,1778.71"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/292","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"If I had an idea, I wouldn't, wouldn't keep that idea.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1778.71,1782.73"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/293","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, uh...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1784.02,1788.69"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/294","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I don't know if that's bad, but it's certainly my, my own temperament.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1788.69,1794.11"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/295","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nIn your association with other artists, particularly Black artists, do\nyou feel, you know, some artists do feel that they have a special\nmessage,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1795.58,1805.07"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/296","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"because, you know, they are Black, do you think other artists you,\nyou've associated with feel that way?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1805.76,1811.16"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/297","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nYeah. A lot of painters have started out with the idea that they have\nto make some kind of social comment and, uh,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1811.76,1821.66"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/298","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"this is a... It's like taking a religion, you know, and saying that\nyou,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1824.03,1832.69"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/299","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you want to find the truth in the world, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1833.95,1837.55"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/300","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, I don't think that that's necessary.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1838.06,1840.03"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/301","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I don't think that finding the truth anymore is important, any more\nimportant than finding a message, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1840.04,1849.37"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/302","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"If you said now, if the man can't learn from the messages of the\ntrees, and the sunshine, and the water, and the birds, and, uh, life\nitself,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1849.97,1859.93"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/303","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"all these animals, and so on.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1860.92,1862.42"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/304","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"If you can't learn from that, I don't think you're going to learn\nanything from a picture.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1862.42,1865.6"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/305","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I don't think you can learn anything from a painting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1865.6,1867.64"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/306","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Do you understand what I'm saying?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1869.17,1870.34"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/307","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"In other words, I don't think that, if you can't learn the wonder and\nthe beauty of life from watching all these things, that you're going\nto look at a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1870.34,1879.88"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/308","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"picture of a flower and learn anything, or a picture of a man with\nhis.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1879.88,1883.51"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/309","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":".. um, I don't know. I'm trailing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1887.53,1888.75"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/310","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I remember seeing murals in the early, early Mexican revolutions and\nthings, and they were strong and powerful, and I felt like, Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1889.84,1899.8"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/311","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"wow, they're strong and powerful, but I, I never got any lasting\nfeeling from any of those murals.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1899.86,1907.72"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/312","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I always felt, even the Michelangelo murals in the Sistine Chapel,\nthough, don't say anything to me, except the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1907.9,1917.41"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/313","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"artwork, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1917.41,1918.73"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/314","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"One in particular, the, the Adam, or the God creating Adam, and, uh,\nman.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1920.29,1926.61"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/315","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That's beautiful. But it's hard to say that I don't feel one thing, I\ndon't understand how the whole","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1928.0,1937.24"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/316","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"enormous work, and it's four or five years just to complete, fails to\nsay anything to me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1937.27,1946.93"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/317","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Now that, that's a, tells you something about me, but I'm, I just\ndidn't feel it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1948.97,1954.49"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/318","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nHow's the art market in Houston?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1955.9,1958.27"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/319","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"For instance, is there a demand for art in Houston?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1958.27,1963.34"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/320","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nWell, um, I think that was people coming into houses, and moving into\na townhouse, and whatever, and the sense of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1964.3,1973.66"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/321","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"declarations and, and having, you know, to equip these houses with\nfurniture, and paintings of stuff, that there certainly is a demand","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1973.66,1983.47"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/322","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":". And, um, it's a, a very, you know, wonderful opportunity.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1984.01,1990.41"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/323","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I'm, I'm not into that, but I would like to, probably later, get into\nthat.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1990.42,1996.42"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/324","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nWhat about, um, as far as patrons are concerned?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=1996.42,2000.82"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/325","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You know, do you have wealthy patrons supporting you, or are they\nhere?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2000.82,2004.67"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/326","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nNo, I used to have, know quite a lot of wealthy people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2005.51,2008.24"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/327","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I don't know as many now as I used to know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2008.24,2010.85"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/328","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But, see again, um, my idea of, of, of wealth, and I haven't\nreally...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2010.85,2018.86"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/329","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I'm still floating around someplace, I haven't really gotten into\nwhat I'm supposed to do about myself, and in relation to all these\npeople.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2021.02,2030.26"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/330","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I know that, you know, when people talk to me about what I should\nbe doing, and if I really wanted to work, I've heard people say, Well,\nyou could be a rich man if","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2031.55,2041.51"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/331","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you really got down to work, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2041.51,2044.03"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/332","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But see, all my life I've been working, but somehow it never turned\nup, out to be a thing like rich, or anything.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2044.96,2052.13"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/333","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I mean, I just simply can't imagine it, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2052.19,2056.82"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/334","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I'm thinking that if I, if I would, um, if I could get interested in\nit to the degree that I get interested in other things, I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2056.84,2066.62"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/335","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"probably could become rich.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2066.62,2068.75"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/336","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And that's what I can't force.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2070.28,2071.98"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/337","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You know, I can't pretend to be interested when I'm not.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2071.99,2075.5"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/338","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There was a point when maybe my interest in art was very, very, you\nknow, idealistic, and I wanted to know the very essence of what was\nmaking things good, and why they were good.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2076.25,2085.46"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/339","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And when I was this way, nobody cared about whether they were good or\nnot.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2086.21,2091.58"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/340","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nobody cared about whether there were profound.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2092.36,2095.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/341","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So now what, what, what you're asking me is, could I ever get to care\nagain, whether they're profound or not?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2096.23,2103.85"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/342","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Maybe one day like I will.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2104.66,2107.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/343","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But now I'm playing golf and making sort of, I'm doing, making my\ndiversions, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2107.54,2113.33"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/344","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I find myself happier being on a, on a kind of a less serious,\nyou know, vein about myself and about art.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2113.4,2122.78"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/345","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I find myself probably happier and more profound, then I would be if\nI was dwelling on it, and carrying a paintbrush","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2123.47,2133.34"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/346","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"with me every day, and, and, you know, being, uh, live in the art\nscene, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2133.34,2140.45"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/347","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nFrom your association with other artists, do you know of any people\nwho go after these artists or support the artists as far as","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2141.62,2151.49"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/348","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"money is concerned?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2151.82,2152.99"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/349","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nOh yeah, there are lots of very ambitious people who seem to be better\nconnected now; very well connected and respected and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2153.05,2162.92"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/350","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"so forth. I think that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2162.92,2167.09"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/351","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":".. I don't know them, I just from hearsay, you know, that people like\nthe very wealthy types, you know, like the Rockefellers and the\nDuPont's,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2169.78,2179.02"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/352","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and so forth. They've done some very fine, you know, patronizing to\npeople who are","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2179.71,2189.03"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/353","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"deservant, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2189.03,2190.26"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/354","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So I have hope, I just don't know them myself, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2192.11,2195.42"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/355","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I don't have any super rich friends.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2195.42,2198.41"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/356","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Because I don't like what has to happen with you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2200.43,2202.77"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/357","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"First, you've got to go there and hope they like you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2202.98,2205.41"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/358","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hope you make a good impression on them, and bend yourself into so\nmany different ways of, and to make this happen; and I can't stand to\ndo","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2205.67,2215.67"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/359","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"all of that. I just simply can't go around bending and, and I don't\nsay that people are not able to see, it's just that I'm not going to\ngo through all that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2215.94,2225.48"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/360","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"waiting and hoping, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2226.29,2228.12"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/361","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And even if I never, did make the grade that way, I'd, I'd still feel\nthat I could go on and do the painting that, that I feel is important\n.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2229.08,2238.5"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/362","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"If I'm inspired, you know, that's all it takes just, um, some sort of\ninspiration.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2239.79,2244.38"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/363","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, um, I still have landscapes I haven't painted, you know, just I\nhave things that I haven't, you know, like, I haven't scratched","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2247.05,2256.95"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/364","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the surface with.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2256.95,2258.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/365","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nI know here in Houston we, uh, often think of the Montrose area as\nthe Mecca for artists, is that so?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2259.32,2267.75"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/366","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nNo, that's absolutely not so.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2267.78,2269.55"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/367","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Absolutely. The Montrose is a play land for the rich guys, and the,\nthe, the queer","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2270.93,2280.41"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/368","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"people, and them who just wanna escape.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2280.41,2283.11"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/369","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I think that that's about all it is.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2283.56,2285.63"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/370","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It's a...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2285.63,2287.08"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/371","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But it, it's a Mecca for, you know, restaurants, and the girlie shows,\nand","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2287.08,2295.92"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/372","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"health food places, and.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2297.69,2299.64"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/373","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":".. I think, if you really analyze it, see the, uh...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2301.35,2307.53"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/374","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I was in Berkeley, California, before I came to Houston, Texas, and\nit's the same situation there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2307.53,2313.45"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/375","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Great for, you know, people who find out about themselves and\nexperiment with this type of thing, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2313.45,2322.88"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/376","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that type of thing, and that's a, the proving ground, I think that's\nwhat it is.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2323.72,2330.38"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/377","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It's a chance to exercise, and escape your roots.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2330.45,2336.72"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/378","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And a lot of people have, have found themselves, you know, in either\none way or another, experiment a little bit of this, a little bit with\nthat, little dope","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2337.54,2346.6"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/379","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"experimentation, of, or a lot, or whatever.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2346.6,2350.25"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/380","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And it's, um, you know, it gives people a chance to.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2350.26,2354.1"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/381","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":".. It's better than Pasadena for a lot of people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2356.08,2358.3"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/382","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They leave spring branch and they, or they come away from the River\nOaks or whatever, and do their thing for a while.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2358.87,2368.29"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/383","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But, uh, I'm not sure that, you know, it's too hickey still, there\nare a lot of people in the Montrose area that are just","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2368.74,2378.34"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/384","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"plain redneck in attitude and, and poor white trash, and the rest are\nkinds of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2378.34,2387.9"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/385","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"blending of, uh, like the Mexican Puerto Ricans and the whole\nassortment of, melting pot of people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2388.96,2397.84"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/386","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And these people who have tolerated each other pretty good, but\nthey're not artistic minded,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2398.83,2408.5"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/387","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"they're not wealthy, they don't have the money to support an artist's\ncolony.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2408.5,2412.24"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/388","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So it's still the people in the River Oaks, and the homes, and the,\nthat are going to buy the paintings, and buy the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2414.7,2423.97"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/389","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"furniture, and buy the big cars like the Mercedes and the Cadillacs,\nand the rest of, those are the people that are, have to support the\narts.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2423.97,2432.02"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/390","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nHm. Are you...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2432.52,2432.53"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/391","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nSo you, anyway.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2433.66,2435.01"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/392","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nAre the artists in Houston pretty independent, or do you sort of run\nin clicks?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2435.71,2440.94"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/393","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nI think they're awful.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2442.06,2443.08"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/394","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They just, they're simply awful.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2443.11,2445.18"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/395","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think Houstonians, if they have a little thing that, they just\nsimply don't need anybody else.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2445.21,2452.22"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/396","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I, I was talking about that earlier, how...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2452.23,2456.53"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/397","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That I used to know people, the big name people that you know here,\nand I say, I enjoy knowing them, and would see them every Sunday; and\nnever, not a Sunday would go by, we","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2456.53,2466.51"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/398","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"could get together and eat beans and talk, and drink whiskey or\nwhatever, and, you know, just discuss each other and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2466.51,2476.32"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/399","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"talk about the, or criticize each other, and build each other up,\npraise each other.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2476.5,2482.65"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/400","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And it was really wonderful, and I had the sense of belonging and,\nand learning from this experience, but now I don't see","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2482.98,2492.91"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/401","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"anybody who paints or...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2492.92,2494.35"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/402","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Just, I run into them at the museum, Hi, how are you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2495.81,2499.77"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/403","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You know, and we're having a drink at the opening, and that's it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2499.77,2503.55"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/404","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nAnd why is it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2503.55,2504.91"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/405","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nWhy is it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2504.91,2505.86"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/406","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nYes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2505.86,2506.36"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/407","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nWell, it's not that I've changed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2506.97,2508.86"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/408","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I never changed. I just simply, uh, I think people don't quite\nunderstand.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2508.86,2513.84"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/409","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You know, I think that there was a great, uh, if you go to the museum\non opening night, you'll see it's conspicuous the absence of all","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2514.41,2524.4"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/410","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the Black people, the so-called.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2524.4,2527.47"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/411","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I don't know why, except if it's an African exhibit, now you'll see\nall of them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2527.47,2532.65"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/412","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Again, it's this thing about, you know, show up for the black events\nand support black thinking, black","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2534.6,2544.4"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/413","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"art and all that, but not integrate into the whole total art scene.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2544.41,2551.25"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/414","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I don't think that...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2552.03,2554.64"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/415","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I can't explain it, except and, um, there might be a, like a Texas\nsoutherner used to be quite a, um, group, you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2555.3,2565.2"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/416","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"know, that they used to get together, and all do murals, very strong\npictures and, uh, but","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2565.2,2574.32"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/417","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"they didn't...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2575.46,2578.52"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/418","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I don't know. They didn't get in the, I think, the universal sense of,\nthey didn't show up to the museum openings, or they didn't get\ninvolved with","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2578.52,2588.45"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/419","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the museum, or they didn't.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2588.45,2589.68"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/420","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":".. Or maybe they were mad at the museum, or the museum didn't need\nthis element.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2590.96,2599.52"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/421","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, uh, it could be something set with the museum, I'm not sure what\nit is, but I'm, I'm thinking that somehow that the, uh,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2600.57,2610.1"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/422","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"like Alvia you talked to, and, and she's with the museum, and there's\na sense they're very proud of having of Alvia, you know, and whether\nshe's a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2611.09,2620.96"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/423","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"token person or not, I don't know, I can't say that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2620.96,2623.9"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/424","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think she's a very capable person, and that certainly the museum\nneeds such a capable person.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2623.9,2630.35"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/425","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It's just that I, I'm searching out true deep down motives, you know,\nyou were saying, well, What does the, um,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2630.35,2640.27"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/426","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"is the museum's attitude about?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2640.27,2643.85"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/427","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think the attitude at the museum is like the attitude of the\nschools or whatever.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2645.08,2650.21"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/428","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Just a second. What's up?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2652.18,2658.75"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/429","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Whereas, when I think, um, all of these brackets and so forth, that\nwe're talking about, like museums and this and that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2658.75,2668.67"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/430","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":". Alvia comes with very good credentials, and the credentials are such\nthat, say any person without these credentials","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2669.64,2679.39"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/431","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"probably would not be regarded so highly.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2679.39,2681.67"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/432","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But if you take your kid and you put him in a school like Wellesley,\nor put him in some other, um, Houston school and,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2681.67,2691.63"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/433","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Houston, because of, like the situation with San Francisco, still has\ncomplexes about itself.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2692.71,2700.78"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/434","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They feel that, in order for it to be any good, it has to be imported\nfrom somewhere else.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2701.38,2705.76"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/435","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You know, and it's so tragic that I think that this has to run its\ncourse and everything, and all the schools, and everything else will\nreach out, I've","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2707.05,2716.8"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/436","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"even heard people in Houston say, Well, we would like to do a big\nstatue downtown somewhere, but we cannot get anybody local.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2716.89,2724.15"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/437","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It has to be a national figure, you know, a national...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2724.15,2728.97"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/438","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"big name, you know, person.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2728.97,2730.69"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/439","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And it's, um...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2732.37,2735.64"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/440","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"This is, this is what has happened with the architecture and\neverything else.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2735.64,2740.39"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/441","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Really big commissions are, like the museum itself was, you know,\nsomebody from New York based,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2740.54,2749.72"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/442","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mies van der Rohe, was a big name to, to design the Museum of Fine\nArts.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2751.25,2756.29"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/443","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I don't feel that he relates to the museum, or the Houston scene,\nor the history, or the background of Houston.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2757.7,2765.59"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/444","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And it's too bad, and I'm not criticizing that, or throwing stones at\nit.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2767.15,2771.44"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/445","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It's just that that's, in essence, what's wrong with Houston; it's\nnot aware of itself yet, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2771.59,2780.53"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/446","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, uh, to be aware of yourself, I mean, to be aware of what is\nTexas sky looks like, we were talking about this one day.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2782.45,2789.85"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/447","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, if you're not aware of the Texas sky, well, you know, you still\nhave a lot of awareness to, to, to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2791.39,2800.12"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/448","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"acquire.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2801.23,2802.13"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/449","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nYou were talking about commissions and, you know, big name artists.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2804.16,2807.97"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/450","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"How did you happen to get the commission to do Barbara Jordan's\npainting?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2808.15,2811.72"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/451","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nWell she, well she called around.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2812.8,2814.84"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/452","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"She went to Texas Southern, I'm sure first, and talked to Dr.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2814.87,2819.64"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/453","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Biggers, and he told her about, probably recommended me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2819.64,2823.87"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/454","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I talked to her, and then, then I went over to Austin with a few\nthings, and talked to some people in Austin.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2823.87,2830.32"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/455","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And they, uh...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2831.28,2834.98"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/456","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Either they, uh, either she said, Oh, I like him, or he...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2834.98,2840.12"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/457","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I don't remember what exactly happened, but it was okay, and I did it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2840.12,2844.58"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/458","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I liked her and we got along, and...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2844.88,2849.92"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/459","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I wish I could paint her again.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2849.92,2852.17"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/460","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"She's, she's a...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2852.43,2853.71"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/461","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"because you see...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2854.65,2855.31"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/462","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nHow did you feel when you were approached to do it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2856.25,2857.35"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/463","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You know, you said you like her and...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2857.35,2859.34"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/464","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nHow did I feel?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2859.34,2860.21"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/465","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nYeah, when you, that initial approach that, you know, you're going to\ndo the biggie; you're going to paint, you know, Barbara Jordan?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2860.63,2866.03"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/466","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2866.03,2866.21"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/467","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nWell, I didn't think of it as a biggie.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2866.63,2868.58"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/468","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I never did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2868.61,2869.65"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/469","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"See because I've painted so many people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2869.65,2871.7"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/470","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I could tell you some funny stories about biggies, you know, I was\njust talking about Vegas.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2872.72,2877.04"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/471","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I'm going, you know, we're talking about Barbara now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2878.39,2880.49"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/472","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But I started to talk to her, and I knew she was, but.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2881.12,2884.87"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/473","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":".. And there wasn't any question whether or not, you know, I felt\nlike, you get a chance to do a crucifixion.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2885.8,2892.7"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/474","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And every painter, somehow, whether he's religious or not, has some\nidea how he would do it; if you should have, have to be asked to do\nthe crucifixion of a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2893.96,2903.5"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/475","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"church. There is that down inside of you, a crucifixion, in your\nmind, in you's, in your essence there's a crucifixion; what the\ncrucifixion","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2903.5,2913.43"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/476","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"must be like. And, like, if I had an opportunity to paint Barbara now\nthat I've known her, it would probably be better than the one I've\npainted.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2914.06,2923.27"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/477","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I can see now I, that I've, uh, met her, and I've understood her\ndynamics, and her personality, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2924.65,2934.58"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/478","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"a softness or subtlety of her mind, and everything.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2935.51,2939.47"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/479","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I feel, you know, more respectful of her, you know, and I, I think\nall of us would have to show, you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2940.03,2949.94"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/480","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"know, I'd have to...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2949.94,2953.57"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/481","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But she's a busy person, that's the only thing that would surprise you\nhow.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2953.57,2956.47"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/482","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":".. And I'm a, a, a...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2957.74,2961.76"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/483","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"antsy person, you know, who's got to do it, and got to get it and, you\nknow, keep at it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2961.76,2966.61"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/484","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, uh, you know, I'm, I'm always in a hurry, and I'm furious.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2966.91,2971.5"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/485","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I'm not a slow and take it easy, you know, I'm by-and-by, you know,\nI'm just really out there moving, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2972.34,2980.98"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/486","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I have to do it real quick, and work at it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2980.98,2985.81"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/487","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, with a person who's suddenly in a hurry, and their time is very\nvaluable and they, well...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2986.36,2993.58"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/488","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nHas anything changed since you did her painting, you know, have more\npeople come to you and...?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=2995.57,3002.16"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/489","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nNo. Again, I think it's a question of being frightened by the\nexperience, you see.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3002.16,3006.16"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/490","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There are a lot of people who would like her, and they respect her,\nand they certainly want to praise me if they should meet me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3006.91,3012.76"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/491","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But, um, they are, again, there are people like, I've met people at\nmuseums that said, Well, I don't like the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3013.18,3023.05"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/492","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"politics. I'm a conservative myself, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3023.05,3025.78"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/493","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The, they all come up to me with a drink in their hand, you know?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3026.64,3029.74"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/494","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And say, That was certainly a great painting you did of Barbara.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3030.25,3033.11"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/495","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well I, I know that this is a, I don't know, I've, I've done people,\nyou know, it's just,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3033.13,3041.05"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/496","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that... It's changed my life, but it hasn't, there's no snowball,\nyou know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3042.8,3050.54"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/497","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I didn't expect that, I still, I think that...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3051.11,3056.15"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/498","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You know, just things don't happen that way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3056.15,3058.64"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/499","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I don't know, they might happen that way in movies, you know, like in\n, uh, like if I was an actor in Hollywood, if I did one movie, and it\nwas a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3058.67,3068.48"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/500","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"good movie, I might get a chance to do another movie.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3068.48,3071.18"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/501","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But, um, you see the, the source, and the, the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3071.78,3079.87"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/502","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"individuals are not as, I don't know, efficient.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3081.79,3087.22"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/503","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You know, they all talk, and they'll think a long time, and\nthey'll...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3087.24,3090.78"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/504","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I don't know, I have no attitudes about it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3092.46,3094.71"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/505","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I simply, if it happens, let it happen.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3094.71,3097.05"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/506","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"If not, I'm not, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3097.05,3098.67"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/507","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I'm not going to worry over it, and...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3100.03,3101.43"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/508","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nYou were talking a little bit before about Houston that, you know,\nthinking it was good enough and not realizing its","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3101.43,3111.39"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/509","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"own talent.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3111.39,3112.62"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/510","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nYeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3112.8,3113.07"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/511","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nHow do the Houston museums compare to the museums elsewhere, for\ninstance, supports their collections, et cetera?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3113.25,3120.03"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/512","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nWell, the question that of Houston comparing to other places, you'd\nhave to say to New York City, and to...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3121.02,3128.08"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/513","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nRight.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3128.08,3128.48"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/514","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\n...all the...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3128.48,3129.38"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/515","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nChicago.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3129.38,3129.69"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/516","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nChicago. Well, what happens, see the money people in Chicago, and New\nYork, and in Philadelphia, and Boston, started out","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3130.32,3140.31"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/517","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to buy all the art in the world, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3141.06,3143.73"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/518","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And by the time they went through Europe and bought everything that\nyou could find, that famous artists had painted, they, uh,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3144.78,3154.44"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/519","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"got the cream of the crop.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3156.3,3157.56"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/520","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And in Houston, by the time they grew up to have a museum, and to get\nenough money together to buy all this, found that there wasn't\nanything left to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3158.79,3168.48"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/521","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"buy. So, in this sense, probably they have a better chance to buy\nmodern, uh, contemporary","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3168.48,3178.29"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/522","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"work than old masters, see.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3178.29,3181.13"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/523","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So from a, this point of view, from the latter part, one of other,\ncontemporary modern, not so","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3181.89,3190.62"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/524","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"old, Houston has as much opportunity, how they compare.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3191.52,3196.38"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/525","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think they will compare with other cities very well; very\nfavorably.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3196.41,3200.4"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/526","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Not as much as New York, but still, better than San Antonio, better,\nbigger than Fort Worth, better than Dallas, and so forth,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3201.21,3210.54"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/527","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"but not better than San Francisco, or any of this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3210.99,3215.93"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/528","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But, when the old, old collectors have still...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3215.94,3219.84"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/529","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What do you call it when you...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3222.01,3224.96"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/530","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hog the market or something?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3224.96,3226.29"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/531","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nYeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3226.29,3226.3"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/532","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nYeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3227.16,3227.46"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/533","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nYou know, you were saying, you know, back to Houston not realizing its\ntalent.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3228.45,3232.65"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/534","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Do you feel that Houston has its share of top notch artists?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3233.25,3238.05"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/535","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nNot really. I don't think they have, because they have a, um","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3238.65,3242.46"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/536","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"... They're, they're still not leading anything, that's still not,\nthey're afraid of lead, and, [then I've], they're still, if you, if\nyou take a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3248.77,3258.66"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/537","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"... a lot of the lead, you just have to get out there, and take a\nchance on somebody unknown.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3260.54,3267.79"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/538","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"See, if you're not willing to do that, and, and make people, and\ndiscover people, and say, Here is our person, and make this person a\nbig","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3269.36,3278.91"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/539","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"name, like all the Warhol's, and Andy Warhol's, and this-and\n-the-that, the Bette Midler's, and all that happened in New York.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3280.77,3287.55"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/540","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They don't happen here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3287.55,3288.69"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/541","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They don't wanna take any chance on anybody they don't know about,\nsee?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3289.17,3293.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/542","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So they can not lead, or they can't create anything here, because\nthey don't want to.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3294.0,3298.17"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/543","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"they want to copy whatever New York does, or whatever Chicago is, or\nsomeplace else.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3299.43,3305.31"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/544","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And that's tragedy, you see, because Houston has the money.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3306.09,3310.05"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/545","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They have so much money here to do all of this, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3311.4,3315.33"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/546","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Like they, if somebody comes up with something they have never seen,\nthey sit around and they don't go to the experts and say, What do you\nthink of this?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3315.96,3324.52"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/547","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They try to decide.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3324.54,3325.74"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/548","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, you know, they're squabbling about some stature of, see I don't\nknow, I haven't seen it, I saw a picture of it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3325.74,3334.41"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/549","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":".","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3335.6,3335.86"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/550","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nOh, right","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3335.86,3336.99"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/551","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The one on, uh...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3336.99,3337.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/552","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nSomewhere, it's somewhere on Westheimer.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3337.0,3339.36"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/553","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nIt's three dimensional and they decided it wasn't good art, it was\ndistasteful.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3339.36,3341.91"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/554","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nYeah, right, exactly.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3342.66,3344.28"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/555","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nWell, do you think that an artists, do, do artists really have a good\noutlet here?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3347.5,3352.78"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/556","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You said, Houston doesn't like to take a chance on artists.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3352.78,3355.81"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/557","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nYeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3355.81,3356.53"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/558","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nIs Houston a good, you know, do they have good outlets for all these\nthings?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3356.53,3359.69"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/559","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Best that they go somewhere else or...?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3360.86,3363.02"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/560","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nNo, it isn't that. See, I think the outlet is okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3363.02,3365.24"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/561","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It's just that what has to happen, I think what has to happen with the\nartists, with Houston and the artists, is that,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3365.24,3374.72"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/562","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you have to keep having galleries like, um, that are not","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3375.23,3384.55"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/563","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"dictating to the artist.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3384.57,3386.07"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/564","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Say, for instance, if you had a gallery that was going to dictate to\nyou, tell you, Well, look, we know what's going to sell, and we know\nif you could paint this, and if you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3386.07,3395.52"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/565","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"paint that it'll really sell.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3395.82,3398.85"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/566","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, see because the gallery knowing, and saying that they know the\nmarket, and they know what they can sell, is in a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3398.85,3408.69"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/567","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"sense saying, We have prescribed, we were prescribing certain kinds\nof pictures","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3408.69,3418.53"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/568","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"from you because they're saleable, and that's death in itself, you\nknow.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3418.53,3425.31"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/569","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That's them telling you, don't paint anything that isn't, and do it\nmore like it did that other one.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3427.26,3435.24"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/570","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And you, and you just keep saturating yourself with the same old,\nsame old, and it just doesn't go","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3435.72,3445.17"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/571","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"anywhere, just...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3445.17,3447.58"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/572","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, So what if people buy this or that, flowers, or if they buy, you\nknow, so what?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3447.58,3455.94"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/573","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Because if you do one flower and you get tired of flowers, you keep\non, because that's what you have to do to sell; it can't amount to\nanything but","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3457.5,3466.26"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/574","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"boredom, and once you get bored, it's going to show.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3466.92,3470.9"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/575","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Your works going to show when you're bored.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3470.9,3473.19"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/576","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You know what I'm saying? Besides writing, if you don't write what\nyou like, uh, you can't write anything that you don't like; and you\ncan see what I've...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3474.99,3484.8"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/577","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nName of my thesis.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3484.8,3484.81"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/578","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nYeah, humdrum, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3485.61,3487.65"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/579","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ho, ho, and, whatever.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3487.8,3489.3"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/580","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nWhat kind of, um, do, does Houston have any galleries that don't\ndictate it, are willing to accept","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3489.93,3499.65"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/581","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the artists, and what he wants to, rather than what will, quote\nunquote, sell?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3500.01,3505.26"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/582","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nYeah, well, there are a lot of little galleries that are off, off the\nbeaten path, that will put up an exhibit by some unheard of people;\nand,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3505.86,3514.83"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/583","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"um, nothing will happen.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3515.95,3519.33"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/584","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They'll sit there, the paintings will show in this unheard of\ngallery, and, uh, they won't even get the newspapers out to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3519.34,3529.11"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/585","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"cover it and make it, uh, maybe nobody comes to look at it, and it's\n...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3529.11,3536.64"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/586","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"it Just sits. And if it doesn't sell, they take it down, and the\ngallery closes up, and...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3538.19,3544.32"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/587","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Or, it's, I don't know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3547.39,3549.4"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/588","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They'll try things, you know, like they'll even have things that are\nso far in advance that they couldn't possibly sell.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3550.15,3559.87"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/589","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Like there'll be a gallery with maybe a light exhibit, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3561.94,3565.29"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/590","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, a light show is all right, but it's a, it's a, it's a light\nshow.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3566.58,3572.49"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/591","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It's one of those, how can you say, I'm going to sell this light\nshow, when a person hasn't even graduated to, uh.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3572.94,3581.28"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/592","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":".. maybe a, what do you call it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3584.18,3586.55"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/593","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"A three dimensional?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3586.55,3588.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/594","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nYou're right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3588.0,3589.24"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/595","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Three dimensional paintings.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3589.24,3589.62"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/596","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nIt's just, see the, the whole thing is either one galleries to\nadvance.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3592.73,3598.43"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/597","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":".. arts; the other is too traditional, or they're lagging, one's\nlagging, one's too far gone, or to protected.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3601.07,3610.29"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/598","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"[Said], I just think that there...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3610.29,3614.42"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/599","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Time has come to look at what's being shown, and really look at it\nand know what is, what's, what...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3617.84,3624.29"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/600","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, people are trying to say.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3626.71,3629.59"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/601","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"If they're trying to say something that's already old fashioned,\nthere's nothing wrong with that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3629.59,3635.61"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/602","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Let's call it a return to the past or whatever.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3635.62,3639.81"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/603","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And they're doing this as furniture, with old clothes, and with\neverything, so there's nothing wrong with going back, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3639.81,3645.49"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/604","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Because I think from going back we kind of re-evaluate the past, and\nthen we go on again to another thing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3646.9,3654.96"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/605","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It's just that, if you look for snobs to support you, you know, it's\njust, that's what the galleries have kind","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3654.97,3664.9"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/606","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of their role playing to the snobs; and their are fewer snobs then\nthere are people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3664.9,3671.92"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/607","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The people, if they don't have the money well, who else are going\nto...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3672.55,3676.84"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/608","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But I think that everything in, in your life has touched on art,\nwhether it's a design on a shirt, or what you sit on yourself, or the\ncolors on your wall,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3679.33,3689.26"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/609","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"or the kind of bric-a-brac you like around you; that's all a part of\nyour art sense.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3689.26,3696.22"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/610","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So people are always exercising some choice or, in design, or in\ncolor, the car, car you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3697.27,3707.02"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/611","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"drive, the lines on it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3707.02,3709.09"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/612","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nWe've, you know, talked pretty much about Houston and your background.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3710.43,3714.8"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/613","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Is there anything you'd like to add, perhaps, that we haven't\ncovered?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3714.82,3718.24"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/614","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nWell, all I think, I would like to say is, that I have just simply and\none day I'm going to start to paint.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3719.76,3726.01"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/615","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nAnd get rich.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3727.81,3727.82"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/616","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nNo, I don't know whether I'll get rich, I'm going to paint, and I, I'm\ngoing to do all those things I want to do, and I've ever wanted to do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3729.03,3736.9"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/617","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It might be that I'll be the most, you know, conventional painter in\nthe world, might be, I might even start painting landscapes; I don't\nknow, at the moment.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3737.89,3746.88"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/618","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But, you know, I, I just simply feel in order to stay with it, where\nyou enjoy it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3748.21,3755.98"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/619","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":".. You know, I got stopped smoking about three years ago, and it's\njust like I started to live all over again, and that's the way I feel\nabout my easel, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3758.06,3767.47"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/620","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I have a easel that I'm just in love with.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3768.04,3770.56"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/621","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I love my easel.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3770.56,3772.08"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/622","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I love the paint. I love the mixing paint.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3772.09,3774.73"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/623","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I loved it when I opened the tube.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3774.73,3776.59"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/624","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I used to paint and, and hate to open my kit.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3777.52,3780.73"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/625","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I hated to wash my brushes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3780.73,3782.73"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/626","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I hated to mix the paint.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3782.74,3784.12"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/627","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I hated to get it out of the tube.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3784.12,3786.25"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/628","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The tubes wouldn't get, they'd get stuck, and you'd have to put a\nmatch to fire it up and make it loose, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3787.24,3793.84"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/629","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So I just hated to paint.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3794.32,3796.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/630","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And this is when I had all sorts of commissions and people were\nseeking me for this and that, I just hated what I was doing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3796.63,3804.91"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/631","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But now I don't hate it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3806.32,3807.73"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/632","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You know, I'm, I love it again.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3807.73,3811.12"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/633","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veronica Perry:\nOkay. If, you know, you have no other comments, I'd certainly like to\nsay, I really enjoyed talking to you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3813.12,3820.01"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/634","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thank you for taking out your time and adding to our oral history\ncollection.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3820.32,3825.36"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/635","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Edsel Cramer:\nVery good. Thank you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401#t=3826.68,3827.94"}]},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/112799/file/215401/transcript/65043/annotation/636","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/065/043/original/OH0032EdselCramer.vtt?1709054298","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/065/043/original/OH0032EdselCramer.vtt?1709054298"}]}]}]}