{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/g15t728t25/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Bies, Alan and Boehck, Steve"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/252/original/HPL_ArchiveBannerCDM2.jpg?1738348845","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["Houston Public Library Special Collections"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://rightsstatements.org/page/CNE/1.0/?language=en\"\u003eCopyright Not Evaluated \u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003ePlease contact the Houston History Research Center, Houston, Texas. To request item: https://digital.houstonlibrary.org/reproductions-and-copyright\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Bies, Alan (Interviewee)","Boehck, Steve (Interviewee)","Kreneck, Thomas (Interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["July 29, 1983 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English (primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eIn this interview, Alan Bies and Steve Boehck discuss their restoration of the Milroy house in the Heights. They discuss the wiring, ceilings, air conditioning, roof, wallpaper, painting, heat pumps, and the kitchen which they made modern while saving the old atmosphere.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["Videocassette tape, sound"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject"]},"value":{"en":["Houston (Tex.) (geographic)","Oral histories","Historic buildings","Architecture"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Sound"]}},{"label":{"en":["Custom Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["OH0373"]}},{"label":{"en":["Note"]},"value":{"en":["Original"]}},{"label":{"en":["Funding Note"]},"value":{"en":["This project was made possible in part by the Institute of Museum and Library Services [ARPML-250908-OMLS-22]."]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eIn this interview, Alan Bies and Steve Boehck discuss their restoration of the Milroy house in the Heights. They discuss the wiring, ceilings, air conditioning, roof, wallpaper, painting, heat pumps, and the kitchen which they made modern while saving the old atmosphere.\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://rightsstatements.org/page/CNE/1.0/?language=en\"\u003eCopyright Not Evaluated \u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003ePlease contact the Houston History Research Center, Houston, Texas. To request item: https://digital.houstonlibrary.org/reproductions-and-copyright\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Houston Public Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Houston Public Library"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/252/original/HPL_ArchiveBannerCDM2.jpg?1738348845","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/216/179/small/20180223_102402a.jpg?1705686165","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 4 - OH0373-02AlanBies-SteveBoehck.mp4"]},"duration":1925.12,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/216/179/small/20180223_102402a.jpg?1705686165","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-houstonlibrary.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/216/179/original/OH0373-02AlanBies-SteveBoehck.mp4?1699469763","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":1925.12,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["OH0373AlanBies-SteveBoehck.doc [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") This is a July 29th, 1983, oral history interview with Mr. Alan Bies and accompanied by Mr. Steve Beck. Alan, how did you become interested in owning and restoring the Milroy house XE \"Milroy house\" ?\n\nAB: \tWell—I guess—when I was real young, I used to like the big houses on Heights XE \"Heights\"  Boulevard XE \"Heights Boulevard\" , and I liked this house and the Cooley house XE \"Cooley house\"  real well. They were, at that time, the most interesting houses here. Of course, the Cooley house was torn down in the late ‘60s, so really this was the only super house left on Heights Boulevard almost in the area. I shouldn’t say super, because there were a couple of really nice houses left down the street—several—but this was the—I felt—the best house. Really, it is probably the best framed Victorian XE \"Victorian\"  house XE \"Victorian house\"  left in Houston XE \"Houston\" —gingerbread type of house. There are some really fine great revival houses and that sort of thing, but as far as a real hard-core Victorian house, this is probably about the nicest one. \n\nI:\tHow long ago did you first spot it?\n\nAB: \tOh, probably when I was 3 years old. I used to just be crazy about big old houses when I was very young. We used to drive down Heights XE \"Heights\"  Boulevard XE \"Heights Boulevard\"  every morning when we took my dad to work. I’d just go crazy when I saw these houses. \n\nI:\tWere you a native Houstonian?\n\nAB: \tYeah, uh-hunh (affirmative), right.\n\nI: \tWhere were you born? What part of town were you from at the time?\n\nAB: \tGarden Oaks XE \"Garden Oaks\" . \n\nI:\tThis is the house you saw?\n\nAB: \tYeah, I always wanted this house. I really wanted the Cooley house XE \"Cooley house\"  more, but this was my—\n\nI: \tWhat happened to the Cooley house XE \"Cooley house\" ?\n\nAB: \tIt was just torn down. There was no interest in these kinds of houses back in the ‘60s. There was very little interest in them, and so they torn down many of them. \n\nI:\tDo you remember when they tore down the Cooley house XE \"Cooley house\" ?\n\nAB: \tYeah.\n\nI:\tDid you go?\n\nAB: \tYeah, I went to the demolition XE \"demolition\"  sale. When I walked up in front, they hollered to stay clear, and they threw the cupola—the whole top of the cupola right down on the ground then. We walked in and then just left, because it was ruined. It was really sad, because that house was really a fabulous house.\n\nF:\tWhat block on Heights XE \"Heights\"  Boulevard XE \"Heights Boulevard\"  was it? Do you remember?\n\nAB: \tOn the corner of 18th and Heights XE \"Heights\" . That is the site of a park now. I think it—what is it—Marmion Park XE \"Marmion Park\" . Marmion Park was their home. The Heights Association built a—like a bandstand—a big gazebo—a pavilion. \n\nF: \tThat house that Bart Truxillo XE \"Bart Truxillo\"  owns now—do you know who owned that before he did?\n\nAB: \tYeah, I think it was a family called Fakes—F-a-k-e-s—that owned that house. Now, Bart feels that house was designed by the same architect XE \"architect\"  that did this one. There were great similarities in the two, even in the floor plan when you get inside of it. There are quite a few similarities. \n\nI:\tThat’s an interesting house.\n\nSB:\tWho did he say the architect XE \"architect\"  was—Butler XE \"Butler\" ?\n\nAB:\tHe said it was Butler XE \"Butler\" .\n\nSB:\tWe don’t know where he came up with that, and he won’t elaborate, so I don’t know if he just pulled that name out of his head or something or what.\n\nI:\tDo you remember the first name of Butler XE \"Butler\" ? He is just Butler?\n\nSB:\tNo. He just said Butler XE \"Butler\" . That is about all we know about it. See, we tore the—it was a practice a lot of times in Victorian XE \"Victorian\"  times if there were house plans XE \"house plans\" , to roll them up and put them in the newel posts XE \"newel posts\"  at the time of completion of the house. We completely dismantled the newel posts, when we were looking for the house plans for this house, but—\n\nAB: \tI think probably there was a lack of records about Heights XE \"Heights\"  houses, because Heights was a—\n\nSB: \t—separate city at that point. \n\nAB:\tThat all has been gone. \n\nSB: \tThat is the Harris County XE \"Harris County\" , though, isn’t it? Don’t those records appear in Harris County? \n\nAB:\tWe need to do that sometime. Maybe we could find out a little more about it.\n\nSB:\tAlso there is a little question in the book on the Heights XE \"Heights\" . It says that the Milroy’s bought this house from a Mr. McGregor XE \"Mr. McGregor\" , and when we talked to Hamilton XE \"Hamilton\"  Milroy about that, he said definitely that his dad had built this house. He didn’t know who this Mr. McGregor was. Now, that information had come from Helen XE \"Helen\" , his older sister, the woman that lived here all of her life. \n\nI:\tWhich information? That he bought it from McGregor?\n\nAB: \t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=6.0,310.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") Right, and so that probably would be more accurate, because she was older. I mean—he was born in this house, so he doesn’t really know about the construction, but she was—like—I don’t know—\n\nSB:\t—five.\n\nAB: \tWas she only five?\n\nSB: \tYeah, she was pretty young.\n\nI:\t—when they moved into the house?\n\nSB:\tWell, her sister was born then.\n\nI:\tWas it just the house itself or was it the Heights XE \"Heights\" , in general, that interested you?\n\nAB: \tNo, I liked the Heights XE \"Heights\"  real well. I liked it real well, and then I didn’t like it—you know—when it sort of went down, because we could’ve bought the Cooley property XE \"property\"  very inexpensively—\n\nSB:\t—but it’s the house.\n\nAB:\t—but the Heights XE \"Heights\"  was such a mess at the time.\n\nSB:\tIt still is.\n\nAB:\tYeah, it still is sort of a mess. I guess everybody felt that way.\n\nI:\tDuring the ‘60s, you’re saying?\n\nAB:\tRight.\n\nSB:\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=310.0,369.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") These big old houses were sort of dragged on the market.\n\nAB: \tI really do like the Heights XE \"Heights\" , and it’s not a pretentious place, by any means. It’s just very relaxed and a nice atmosphere. \n\nI:\tWhen did you first start thinking seriously about buying the house?\n\nAB: \tWell, in 1978,—I believe—I was visiting with some friends, and I saw on the wall a picture of a fabulous Victorian XE \"Victorian\"  house XE \"Victorian house\" . I’d always had this tremendous interest in houses, and so we started talking about it. They said, “Well, that was her family’s home in Nacogdoches XE \"Nacogdoches\" .” She said, in Navasota XE \"Navasota\"  there is a house that is almost identical for sale, and so when I came home that night from down at the gallery, I mentioned that, and my mother and dad the next day drove up to Navasota just to find this house and look it over. They found several houses there that were for sale pretty reasonably. Then almost every other day they were going on a trip somewhere looking for houses. It was amazing. I had in mind—well, they were down in Werkman XE \"Werkman\"  and found a real nice old house that was going to be torn down to put the street through. We went down and looked at it, and my dad bought it. Then he dismantled it. He and a friend of his dismantled it. I mean—it was a big house. It wasn’t just a small house. It was a three-story house—a real neat old house. \n\n\tWell, we thought possibly we could obtain the Cooley property XE \"property\"  and build the thing back and make some changes to it, so it appeared like the old Cooley house XE \"Cooley house\"  somewhat. I mean—it wouldn’t be just the same thing, but it was a very similar house to that, as far as  the porches and the shape of the house, but we could never make a deal on that property. Finally, the man increased his—he kept raising the price he had in mind to sell the house, until we got up to the point where he was close to what—just for that property—for 3 lots—what they wanted here for 4 lots with this house on it—the house constructed. We just said, “Well, this is ridiculous. We might as well try to buy the Milroy house XE \"Milroy house\" .” Then we did that.\n\nI:\tWhen did you come to know that the Milroy house XE \"Milroy house\"  was being for sale?\n\nAB:\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=369.0,547.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") Well, my mother had melt Helen XE \"Helen\"  Milroy sometime ago, and she found out that she was residing at St. Anthony’s. It’s a Catholic nursing home in Missouri XE \"Missouri\" —exclusive, from what I understand. She went down to visit her one time. They talked a while. She said, “Well, she would never sell her house as long as she was alive,” and when she died, it would be handled by Texas XE \"Texas\"  Commerce XE \"Texas Commerce\"  bank. Everything was in trust.\n\nSB:\tSee, we had heard rumors that the house would be torn down upon her death, because the rumors were floating around all over town about this house was haunted XE \"haunted\" .\n\nAB: \tPeople said that it was haunted XE \"haunted\" .\n\nSB: \tFirst of all, somebody said her son,—which she didn’t have a son— but then somebody else said her nephew thought the house was haunted XE \"haunted\" . He was the one that was going to inherit it, and he was going to tear it down immediately upon her death.\n\nAB:\tMy mom confronted her with all of this, and she said, “Absolutely not.” She didn’t want the house torn down. She loved that house more than anything. That is why she wouldn’t sell it as long as she was alive. \n\nSB:\tWell, she always hoped that she would be able to come back. In fact, one time she did come back. We were talking to Hamilton XE \"Hamilton\" , her brother, about that. She had become a little senile, and she had left St. Anthony’s and come home with a nurse, but she had only been home about 2 or 3 hours when she fired the nurse. Then she was here in this great big house by herself, and so then they had to put her back in and say, “Well, this is it. You can’t.”\n\nI:\tShe was infirmed at that time?\n\nAB:\tRight.\n\nSB:\tWell, actually, she had been living downstairs for quite some time anyway, because she was having trouble climbing the stairs, and the plumbing XE \"plumbing\"  in the upstairs bathroom was not good. \n\nAB:\tIn fact, that was the reason why the back porch XE \"porch\"  was so massacred. She had a bathroom put in right off the kitchen XE \"kitchen\" . \n\nI:\tThen how long did she live after you all found that out?\n\nSB:\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=547.0,683.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") Not to terribly long. It was probably half a year or something like that—I believe.\n\nI:\tApproximately, what time this? Approximately, what time when your mother made contact with her?\n\nSB:\tWell, let’s see. It was in the winter of 1978, and she died in—I think—in March of ’79.\n\nAB:\tIt was February. I think it was the end of February, early March in ’79. Then the house came on the market late in ’79—I guess.\n\nSB:\tNo, I think—see, first of all, they wanted bids on the house. They wanted you to make an offer on the house, is what the bank said. They wanted you to—\n\nAB:\tThey didn’t have a price. \n\nSB: \tThey had a price in mind, but they didn’t say what it was. They wanted to make offers. Then, all of a sudden, they came back with the price of $300,000. \n\nAB:\tTwo ninety-five with no terms.\n\nSB: \tWith no terms—cash—within a couple of days of acceptance.\n\nAB:\tTen-day contract XE \"contract\" —or something. \n\nSB:\t—which made the house very inaccessible to 99.9 percent of the populous.\n\nI:\tWere they quite a few bidders that you know?\n\nSB:\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=683.0,766.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") I don’t think there were a whole lot of people. One of the problems was that they would not list it with a real estate XE \"real estate\"  agency, because they didn’t want to pay the—\n\nAB:\t—real estate XE \"real estate\"  fee.\n\nI:\tThe 6 percent or whatever?\n\nAB:\tRight. They just refused—\n\nSB:\tI mean—the bank—this was the bank.\n\nAB:\tThis was not the Milroy family XE \"Milroy family\" . The Milroy family was very anxious for the house to be sold to somebody that was going to keep the house—\n\nSB:\t—restore XE \"restore\"  it.\n\nAB:\t—restore XE \"restore\"  it and love the house.\n\nSB:\tThat was their first concern, but the bank fooled around so long with their no terms and their $295,000 that finally they approached the point where the taxes XE \"taxes\"  were due. They went through another tax period, and the house could’ve been taken over by the government and sold at auction. They had the house appraised for $250,000. They had a very professional appraisal XE \"appraisal\"  done on it. It was bound, and it was really a fine thing. It was a split. \n\nAB:\tYeah, it cost them $1,500 or $1,700 to have that appraisal XE \"appraisal\"  made.\n\nSB:\tTexas XE \"Texas\"  Commerce XE \"Texas Commerce\"  bank would not show it. They refused to show it, because they were just set on getting $295,000 out of this house, and they just—when we told Hamilton XE \"Hamilton\"  this—filled him out on how this deal was handled—he was just shaken—I mean—visibly shaken by that, because they had no idea what was going on down here.\n\nAB:\tPlus the bank kept taunting that they didn’t care who they sold it to. If some developer XE \"developer\"  wanted to come in here and tear it down and build apartments or townhouses or a condominium or a filling station or a stop-and-go or whatever, they didn’t care, as long as they got the money.\n\nSB:\tI mean—4 lots in a row—you could do a lot of building on it. It could be a very big project XE \"project\" . \n\nI:\tWhere was Hamilton XE \"Hamilton\"  at this time?\n\nSB:\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=766.0,884.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") In Connecticut XE \"Connecticut\" .\n\nI:\tHe was in Connecticut XE \"Connecticut\" ?\n\nSB:\tYeah, he lives in Hamden, Connecticut XE \"Connecticut\" .\n\nI:\tWhat was the resolution of that? How did it proceed from there?\n\nAB:\tWell, finally, I just made an offer on it, with some terms, which weren’t great for me, but what we felt that probably would be the only thing acceptable. They just accepted it immediately. I mean—one phone call and they accepted the terms. We gave them earnest money on the house and submitted the contract XE \"contract\" , and it’s all through.\n\nSB:\tThere had been a contract XE \"contract\"  earlier on the house that—\n\nAB:\t—quite early.\n\nSB:\t—the same year, although the guy could not raise the money, and the deal fell through.\n\nAB:\tYou know—I was real happy when they got a contract XE \"contract\"  on it, because I thought well, then I can just put this out of my mind. I don’t have to worry about it constantly. \n\nSB:\tWell, see, Marcela Perry was working on a deal through the Heights XE \"Heights\"  Association simultaneously. They wanted to buy the house and just open it up as a museum, but they weren’t going to pay more than $200,000.\n\nAB:\tTwo-twenty—I think—was their maximum, depending on—\n\nSB:\tThe house needed massive help, because the roof XE \"roof\"  was gone, and the siding XE \"siding\"  was falling off, and the front porch XE \"porch\"  was deteriorating and had some termite XE \"termite\"  damage XE \"damage\" .\n\nI:\tWas the family insistent upon it being bought and restored, or was all to be handled by Texas XE \"Texas\"  Commerce XE \"Texas Commerce\"  bank?\n\nSB:\tNo.\n\nI:\tWas the decision there to be made by whom?\n\nSB:\tI mean—the family wanted that. They wanted the house saved, because that was always real important. This house was always real important to the Milroy family XE \"Milroy family\" . They were up in Connecticut XE \"Connecticut\" , and they didn’t want to live down here. They wanted it saved, but yet they just had reached the point where something had to be done with it. No matter what was done with it, the deal had to be completed, because of the tax situation. I don’t think anybody there had money to pay them.\n\nI:\tWas the house—say in—well, she died in ’79 or ’78?\n\nSB: \tI’m not sure exactly when she did die.\n\nI:\tUpon her death, was there—during the sale of the house—was there a possibility of the house going the way of the wrecking ball?\n\nAB:\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=884.0,1053.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") Oh, I think definitely so, yeah. I really do.\n\n SB:\tI would say—especially, they dragged it out for such a long period of time that they had to do something with it towards the end there. There was that possibility. Although the Heights XE \"Heights\"  Association, in an effort to try and save the house and protect it, had gone along and spent—I don’t know—something like $2,000 of their own money to get the house listed on the Texas XE \"Texas\"  register XE \"Texas register\"  and also the national register XE \"national register\" , and had done that at their own expense in some attempt to try and preserve the house to intimidate anyone who might buy it from trying to tear it down or do something terrible with it—make it into a disco or something.\n\nAB:\t—a haunted XE \"haunted\"  house.\n\nSB:\t—although there really there is no real protection for the house.\n\nAB:\t—not against private funds, no. You could just—\n\nSB:\tAll you have to do is give them notice if you’re going to tear it down or whatever. They have 60 days or something to come up with an offer to either buy it or—\n\nAB:\tI don’t even think it is that long.\n\nSB:\tThere really isn’t a whole lot of protection there, although the Heights XE \"Heights\"  Association did do that.\n\nI:\tEven before you all bought the house?\n\nSB:\tRight. They kept those—put it on the national register XE \"national register\"  in 1980 and the state also.\n\nI:\tIn 1980?\n\nSB:\tUh-hunh (affirmative).\n\nI:\tWhen did you all actually buy the house?\n\nSB:\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=1053.0,1159.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") In May of 1980. \n\nI:\tThat had been done before you all moved in?\n\nAB:\tUh-hunh (affirmative), yeah, all of the groundwork was done. Then, after I bought it, then it was dedicated for the Texas XE \"Texas\"  Historical Commission XE \"Texas Historical Commission\" . Then a little later in the year, I received notification that it had been accepted for the national registry. We knew it was all in the works, which is good. \n\nI:\tOkay, what kind of condition XE \"condition\"  was the house in when you first bought it?\n\nAB:\tWell, structurally, it was pretty sound, but cosmetically not too good. The roof XE \"roof\"  was just a disaster, and you could go upstairs and just look right up. If it hadn’t of been for the extreme pitch of the roof, I’m sure a lot more damage XE \"damage\"  would’ve been done to the house. I mean—you could stand anywhere in the attic XE \"attic\"  and look up and see the clouds and birds flying by and stuff, so the roof was in very bad condition XE \"condition\" —just the shingles XE \"shingles\" . The structure of the roof was like brand new in almost every case. First of all, we had to get a roof on the house, because where there was a valley that was completely disintegrated by the chimney, water just had poured down in. It had gone into the second bedroom and the whole ceiling had fallen out of the second—or I should say—the middle bedroom. Then, of course, it had continued down along the chimney into the basement XE \"basement\" . We had been in the house several times after a rainstorm before we bought it, and there was lots of water in the basement. \n\nSB:\tIt was—sort of—a funny deal. There was a bed up in that center bedroom. Well, the house was furnished, except for just a few things that the family took after her death. The plaster XE \"plaster\"  had fallen into this bed, and it looked like a decomposed body laying in it.\n\nAB:\tIt really did.\n\nSB:\tIt was really eerie to walk in there. \n\nAB:\tThe water had just been pouring down on this bed. It was really scary.\n\nSB:\tIt was all mildewed and this big mass lying in the bed. It really looked eerie. A lot of people say they felt the house was haunted XE \"haunted\"  or it had a lot of—\n\nI: \tDid they ever get specific about the haunted XE \"haunted\" -ness? What was supposed to be here?\n\nAB: \t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=1159.0,1317.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") There were a lot of rumors. See, Helen XE \"Helen\"  was—sort of—a recluse. She never married and lived in this great big house, literally—I guess—by herself after he mother died, which I think was in about 1927. She was a businesswoman. She took over her dad’s real estate XE \"real estate\"  business, and that is how she supported herself. I don’t know how all of these rumors got started, but since she was—especially in later years—somewhat of a recluse—didn’t allow anybody in the house or have too many friends, other than friends she had had much earlier in life. There just became an aura around the house that something bad was going on simply because there was nobody that really knew what was going on. In actuality, there wasn’t anything going on.\n\nI:\tWhat was in the house when you got it?\n\nAB:\tIt was all furnished. I mean—you could move right into it, and live just fine—a lot of antique XE \"antique\"  things. There weren’t many things that were really super, but just everything was old and nice. We sold some of the things out of it, if we didn’t feel we could use them, and kept some of it. We still have a lot of things in the house that came out of it originally. It was really great, though, because coming in this house, you would just be taken back in time. It was a real fabulous experience. In a way, I sort of hated to disturb it, because you just—for 2 weeks I’d come here and spend all day long, and I’d just be in a totally different world. It was just really something.\n\nI:\tWhat percentage of the furniture would you say you kept?\n\nAB:\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=1317.0,1441.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") Oh, probably about 30 percent. I mean—maybe a little less than that. I don’t know—there were so many things that we just couldn’t use—you know—with all of these music boxes XE \"music boxes\" . \n\nSB:\tWe kept the rolled-top desk and all of the file cabinets, and there was a little library area upstairs. We kept that in its entirety. We still have one of those bedroom suites, except we didn’t have beds with it. \n\nAB:\tLots of chairs.\n\nSB:\tChairs and tables—quite a bit of stuff that we sold. We couldn’t use it.\n\nAB:\tIt’s sort of interesting to have some things that were originally from the house. Most everything we kept probably was in the house when it was originally built. The things that were put in later, then generally, we got rid of those.\n\nI:\tWhen was the house built?\n\nAB:\tWell, the Milroy’s moved into it in 1898. We figure it was built just shortly before that time.\n\nSB:\tWhen the Heights XE \"Heights\"  was first developed, I don’t think there was actually any house construction at that point, but it was laid out—I know—in 1893, so somewhere in that period. I imagine this house probably took about 2 years to build, since it has a full basement XE \"basement\"  and things like that, which are unique features for a house in this area. \n\nI:\tOther than the roof XE \"roof\" , what else was significantly wrong?\n\nAB:\tThe siding XE \"siding\"  was in terrible shape, because it hadn’t been painted in many years. It couldn’t be nailed back down. We tried everything. We tried soaking it to nail it back down. First of all, you couldn’t drive a nail through it. You had to drill through it. Then you when you tried to nail it down, it would crack in half. Most of it was just curled up real badly. Then we tried wetting the boards. When they were soaked, they nailed down. When they dried out, they would split, so we had to put on—probably almost completely reside the house. We didn’t have to reside under the front porch XE \"porch\"  and some of the north side, but we used the identical material, or very close to it. \n\nSB:\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=1441.0,1593.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") We tried to leave on the original siding XE \"siding\" , which was cypress, and that is not available anymore. \n\nAB:\t—which is fine, so we used yellow pine.\n\nI:\tWhere did you go to get the siding XE \"siding\" ?\n\nSB:\tWell, we found it down at Jones Lumber. That is the only place we could locate it. They are the only one that has that. I think maybe now several other people handle it. \n\nI:\tIs it a particular kind of siding XE \"siding\" ?\n\nSB:\tIt’s just called doven(??) siding XE \"siding\" , but just at that time, you just couldn’t find it anywhere else.\n\nAB:\tI think we found a couple of sources for it, but it was so unreasonable. They were probably buying it from Jones Lumber Company, and selling it, because it was twice the price. We were paying—like 31 cents a foot for it, and everybody else was 60 cents. \n\nI:\tWhat was the first step that you all took after getting the house? Did you hire an architect XE \"architect\"  or a contractor XE \"contractor\" ?\n\nAB:\tNo, the first thing we did was put a roof XE \"roof\"  on it, instantly. I mean—that had to be done immediately, or every time it rained hard, there was a lot of damage XE \"damage\"  occurring. Then we hired—we had two carpenters in about a 6-month period. Then after that was done, we started doing everything ourselves, because—you know—I just haven’t had the funds to have anybody else do anything, other than just those carpenters, and that was it. It is a big project XE \"project\" , but I put a tremendous amount of money it in the first year—just a massive amount of money in it. You can see it is still not done, by any means, but at least it is safe now from collapsing or much water damage or anything.\n\nSB:\tThere was some damage XE \"damage\"  to the foundation XE \"foundation\"  too. Like I said earlier, it has a full basement XE \"basement\" , which is brick. The mortar in a lot of areas is just completely—\n\nAB:\tIt’s been a lot of tough work.\n\nI:\tYou say the first year you put a lot of money in it, okay. First, the roof XE \"roof\"  went on?\n\nAB:\tUh-hunh (affirmative).\n\nI:\tWhat were then the succeeding steps that you did?\n\nAB:\tWhile the roof XE \"roof\"  was going on, then we had a carpenter XE \"carpenter\" . He was replacing siding XE \"siding\" , and we had some guys scraping old paint off. As John would put up siding, then my dad would come along with primer and put primer on it. For probably the first month, Steve and I were completely busy trying to get some things sold to pay the down payment on the house, which—\n\nF: \tWas it difficult to find qualified people to work on the house?\n\nAB:\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=1593.0,1780.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") Yeah, really so. I didn’t want to get, at that time—get a contractor XE \"contractor\"  in here that just brought in a crew of people, and they started knocking holes in this and that and doing a lot of bad things. Before I bought the house, a friend of ours who is a carpenter XE \"carpenter\" , was very interested in hearing about getting the house, so we brought him over. He said, well, he was going to be out of work shortly, and so we hired him. Immediately, after we bought the house—I mean—I think we took about a week to go through things in the house and enjoy it a week or two, Then we started on that.\n\nI:\tWhat, again, did you do with the basement XE \"basement\" ?\n\nAB:\tWhat do you mean?\n\nI:\tYou mentioned that you had to do something in the basement XE \"basement\" ?\n\nAB:\tNo—Steve did a lot of tuck work on the brick—up on the foundation XE \"foundation\" —but we haven’t done much with it. We’re going to really fix the basement XE \"basement\"  up—make it usable living space, but that’s in a few years—just like the third floor—to fix them up. Right now we just use it for storage. It’s been about—\n\nSB:\tOne of the unusual features of this house is that basement XE \"basement\" , because in this area of the country, a basement is a very unusual thing. For that reason, we think this house was designed by a northern architect XE \"architect\"  and the Milroy’s themselves were originally from New York XE \"New York\" , and probably had experienced— \n\nAB:\tWe found a lithograph in the house of Mrs. Milroy’s family’s home in New York XE \"New York\" , and there are some similarities. I think I showed them to you when we were going through all of the paperwork. \n\nSB:\tThere is copula XE \"copula\"  on top that looks very similar to this.\n\nAB:\tThe house had original central heat with a big coal-burning furnace XE \"furnace\"  down in the basement XE \"basement\" , which is all—\n\nI:\tThis house did?\n\nAB:\tYeah, and it is still there. Have you ever been in the basement XE \"basement\" ?\n\nI:\tYes, I believe I went in there one time when I first got here, but it was—let me flip this over.\n\n[OH373_01 ends] (","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=1780.0,1925.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") \n\n[OH373_02]\nI:\tThe interview, too, was really neat.\n\nF:\tDid you all have—and your father dismantled that house?\n\nAB:\tRight.\n\nF:\tDid you all have any building experience in your family?\n\nAB:\tNo, not really. My dad has done things like that. When we were over in Garden Oaks XE \"Garden Oaks\"  we built a couple of small buildings and things like that. \n\nSB:\tWe built that garage in the back.\n\nAB:\tYeah, he really did. I guess—he really did have quite works and stuff—quite a bit of experience. I mean—he worked for the Humble Oil Company—and later became Exxon. He was always very mechanical and could do just about anything with his hands.\n\nI:\tWhat role have your parents played in this?\n\nAB:\tWell, quite a role, to say the least. They have been very supportive of this—tremendously. In fact, they sold their house in Garden Oaks XE \"Garden Oaks\" , because I needed some money. It has been very—I couldn’t have gotten this place without the help of my parents and Steve. I mean—everybody has worked very hard and put a lot into it. That is the only reason that we got the house.\n\nI:\tThis may or may not go on the record, and if you don’t want to divulge it is fine. At this point, how much money have you all spent on it?\n\nAB:\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=1925.0,3690.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") We’ve probably spent around a hundred thousand on this and done almost all of the work ourselves. \n\nSB:\tThat is after the cost of the house. \n\nAB:\tRight—just in the—but I think one of the greatest costs in something like this is labor. We only had really 6 months of any help here, and that was on the exterior XE \"exterior\"  of the house. Of course, maybe that is why the interior XE \"interior\"  is not progressing too well, but—\n\nI:\tHave you all put most of the work—where is most of the work—on the outside?\n\nAB:\tYeah, well, the outside needed immediate help. I mean—that was imperative that that be worked on right away. We wanted to get that in order before winter came. I think it was good, because, as I recall, we had some pretty bad weather that winter. The following spring it flooded.\n\nSB:\tIt’s a funny thing too, because the house—like I said—had original central heat with that furnace XE \"furnace\"  downstairs, but that was originally a coal-burning furnace. Then they hooked it up to burn natural gas XE \"natural gas\" —I mean—out of a pipe—a natural gas XE \"gas\"  pipe going into about this size, and a gas meter downstairs that looked like a meter for a hotel or something.\n\nAB:\tThat was just giant. \n\nSB:\tThe gas XE \"gas\"  company came and removed that, because really they wanted the meter to be outside, so somebody didn’t have to come in the basement XE \"basement\"  to read it. The guy was saying it cost about $2,000 a month to crank that furnace XE \"furnace\"  up. In the thirties, she had run gas lines on the outside of the building. They were just pipes right up the side and drill the hole into the wall, and then put a gas jet there. All the rooms had individual gas heaters XE \"gas heaters\" , so you could heat each room individually at that point. \n\n\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=3690.0,3807.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") I mean—when we restored the outside, we naturally didn’t want these gas XE \"gas\"  pipes running up the outside of the buildings, so we removed all of that. Then the winter came along, and the big furnace XE \"furnace\"  was not functional enough to crank up. We had removed all of the gas jets from all of the rooms. We were depending on heating the house through the fireplace XE \"fireplace\" , and we still had a gas jet in the kitchen XE \"kitchen\"  for the stove XE \"stove\" . \n\nAB:\tWe put a gas XE \"gas\"  heater in the kitchen XE \"kitchen\" , which the heat came out here into the dining room. That was a very cold winter too. We had purchased air conditioning XE \"air conditioning\"  equipment in 1980—I believe. Well, I shouldn’t put a date on it, but we purchased it. \n\nSB:\tIt was that same summer. We thought we’d have it installed by wintertime, but we had never got down to that point. That was a tremendous job getting this house air conditioned, because of all of the things to consider. We didn’t want to just make a big mess and lower ceilings XE \"ceilings\"  and do things like that that would detract from the house. \n\nAB:\tPlus we wanted to have a split-level system, where you could just use one section at a time, so the whole house wouldn’t have to be heated or cooled. It is a fairly good-sized house. The rooms are not that many rooms, but they are all large-scale rooms. Especially, we’ve noticed, with the high ceilings XE \"ceilings\" , it is sort of hard to heat.\n\nI:\tThe heating and cooling has been a more recent addition, as far as the total system?\n\nAB:\tYeah, really just about a year ago we really got the thing to where it was semi-operable. We’ve learned a lot about air conditioning XE \"air conditioning\"  too in doing it. We finally had to resort to doing all of our repair work on the units, because it seemed like everybody that came here made a bigger mess than before. \n\nSB:\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=3807.0,3949.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") We installed heat pumps XE \"heat pumps\" —which I don’t know if you all are familiar with that or not—but they are reverse-cycle air conditioning XE \"air conditioning\"  for heating purposes in the winter. The reason we did that was because of the size and the space available to us to install the units. Since we wanted to keep it on a floor-by-floor basis, if you had gas XE \"gas\"  heat, you require that much more space to put a furnace XE \"furnace\"  in, plus you have to have venting for the furnace and that sort of thing, which was not too compatible with where we wanted to install the units.\n\nAB: \tWell, and too, I just sort of wanted to avoid a gas XE \"gas\"  furnace XE \"furnace\"  upstairs in the house. I just thought that that might be a good thing not to—I mean—gas is great. I really wish we had it, because it sure heats a lot better than this heat pump, but still—in this house—it wouldn’t take much, and this would be gone—you know—if there was some kind of an accident. We’ve been very careful.\n\nSB:\tToo, we have not put any insulation XE \"insulation\"  in yet, and that will help, especially for the heat.\n\nAB:\tYeah, right.\n\nSB:\tThe hot air rises, and it will just go right out the attic XE \"attic\" , because there is no insulation XE \"insulation\" .\n\nI: \tThis is an ignorant question here and won’t go on the tape, but is it more difficult to heat a house like this or cool a house like this, or can you tell a difference?\n\nAB:\tI think it’s probably easier to cool it. \n\nSB:\tRight—it’s easier to cool it, especially—you know—we have the vents at the top. The cool air goes down, but the hot air rises, and with these high ceilings XE \"ceilings\" , you can heat it, but the hot air will go right up to the ceiling pretty quick. This house has so many windows that are not very weather tight that if you get a strong north wind and the windows are rattling, and you can just feel the cold air just whistling right through the wall.\n\nF:\tDid you lower the ceilings XE \"ceilings\"  at all?\n\nAB:\tJust in the kitchen XE \"kitchen\" , and we lowered it about a foot in upstairs in the hall—the central hall—up about a foot too for the ductwork XE \"ductwork\" . In the kitchen, we had a lot of other ducting XE \"ducting\"  for the hood and the oven and all sorts of things had to have a vent, so it was necessary. \n\nSB:\tI mean—the ceilings XE \"ceilings\"  are 11 foot. When you drop them 1 foot to 10 foot, they still look considerably higher than—I mean—most people, when they look in the kitchen XE \"kitchen\" , can’t even tell that we’ve dropped it about a foot.\n\nI:\tI may have been playing with the tape and not listening when you all were telling Deborah about the air conditioning XE \"air conditioning\" . Did you have to close off any areas or deal with any special problems on the air conditioning?\n\nAB:\tWe really didn’t. We built this archway that goes out. We definitely did that. We kept the same look and everything, so it—kind of—for the location of our unit. Now, if we had put one unit in the basement XE \"basement\"  and one unit on the third floor, we could’ve eliminated a lot of problems, but we did not want to have a big old ugly air conditioning XE \"air conditioning\"  unit sitting down in the basement, and we wanted to keep the third floor free for—\n\nSB:\t—living.\n\nAB:\t—to finish it, and so that’s why we did it the way we did. It was a much more expensive installation doing it that way—I think.\n\nI:\tThen is that an instance of trying to keep the restoration XE \"restoration\"  true to the outlines of the house, as opposed to—?\n\nAB:\tYeah, I think so. We’ve tried to do that everywhere—not destroy anything that was important to the house and change the house much at all. There were a few things that you have to give up. I feel like the kitchen XE \"kitchen\" —you know—we wanted a useable kitchen. We have friends out in California XE \"California\"  that just bought a fabulous Victorian XE \"Victorian\"  house XE \"Victorian house\"  in downtown Los Angeles. We were comparing notes. In fact, two other friends of ours bought Victorian houses almost at the same time we did, and so we’re all discussing this. The fellow in Vermont XE \"Vermont\" —his restoration XE \"restoration\"  is—we felt—more—his house seems more modern inside. \n\nSB:\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=3949.0,4245.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") Well, his house really wasn’t Victorian XE \"Victorian\"  anyway. It was built about 1910, and it was not a Victorian style of house.\n\nI:\tIt was sort of the latter days of Victorian XE \"Victorian\" .\n\nSB:\tWhen you walk in his house, you don’t have this feel of nostalgia. You just feel like you walked into—although, he has done a very nice job on his house.\n\nI:\tIs the kitchen XE \"kitchen\"  the main place where you had to compromise?\n\nAB:\tYeah, I think so and, as I was saying, these friends out in California XE \"California\"  were horrified when I said what I wanted to do with the kitchen XE \"kitchen\" . They said, “Oh, no. You need a real old stove XE \"stove\" , and you need one of these real early ice boxes and that.” As Steve and I told them, their ideas were not absolutely original with their house. They had an electric refrigerator, although it was an old type, with the coil on the top. Their stove was a—\n\nSB:\t—Nineteen-twenties.\n\nAB:\tYeah, they were thinking of a 1920’s kitchen XE \"kitchen\"  and not an 1890’s kitchen.\n\nSB:\tI mean—who would want to cook on a wood-burning stove XE \"stove\"  in the middle of the summer.\n\nI:\tDid this have a wood-burning stove XE \"stove\"  at the beginning?\n\nSB:\tAt one time, yes.\n\nAB:\tOriginally it did, in the 1890s. In fact, the chimney—right here behind this wall, we opened up the vent where it used to vent into. You could see on the floor—now it is covered up—but you could see where the feet of the stove XE \"stove\"  had actually burned little grooves into the floor where the original wood-burning stove had been. She had later on—had put gas XE \"gas\"  in. \n\nSB:\tWe did try and keep the right flavor in the kitchen XE \"kitchen\"  with the new appliances. We’ve got to keep it—so we felt we were—\n\nAB:\tWell, the kitchen XE \"kitchen\"  was very hard to deal with anyway, because it was all doors and windows. \n\nSB:\tWe did have an architect XE \"architect\"  help us—give us some ideas on that.\n\nI:\tOn the kitchen XE \"kitchen\" —on re-doing it?\n\nSB:\tRight.\n\nI:\tWhat you’ve got now is a modern kitchen XE \"kitchen\" , which looks—\n\nSB:\tRight, but has an old flavor, and I think that would be acceptable for just about anybody.\n\nAB:\tWe used the beaded seal and wainscoting XE \"wainscoting\"  around the island, and then we put on that simulated marble top.\n\nSB:\t—the Corian, which looks just like old marble, but yet it is a usable thing. \n\nAB:\tThen we have an old kerosene chandelier XE \"chandelier\"  from 1880s and that sort of thing to help. Plus we put wooden door panels on the refrigerator and the dishwasher and stuff like that, so it doesn’t look blatantly like a stainless steel kitchen XE \"kitchen\" . \n\nSB:\tWe made the effort to do this.\n\nAB:\tIt is a pretty nice kitchen XE \"kitchen\" . There are some drawbacks—like the lack of cabinet space in certain areas. \n\nI:\tWhen you all moved into it, how did she have it lighted? \n\nAB:\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=4245.0,4432.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") Well, it was—\n\nSB:\tIt was horrible.\n\nAB:\t—a sad situation. There was one chandelier XE \"chandelier\"  in here, which was right from the 50s. \n\nSB:\tIt might have been earlier than that.\n\nAB:\tIt was sort of art deco. In the kitchen XE \"kitchen\" , there was a florescent light and a little light in the butler’s pantry, and all of the other rooms downstairs, except for the front hall and those two sconces that you see on the front wall, there was no other lighting XE \"lighting\" —just floor lamps and things like that—floor and table lamps.\n\nSB:\t—and really not even not much of that. There were very few plugs. The house had original electricity. \n\nI:\tIt did have electricity originally?\n\nSB:\tRight, and plumbing XE \"plumbing\" .\n\nAB:\tIt had some of the original wiring XE \"wiring\"  from the 1890s still in the house.\n\nSB:\tIt was still being used. \n\nAB:\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=4432.0,4485.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") In fact, we’re eliminating some of it—we were last week. We brought an electrician down from Dallas XE \"Dallas\"  and helped him with that project XE \"project\" . I don’t know if I want to say anything, because we don’t have a permit for that. \n\nSB:\tThat will be stricken from the tape from the transcript.\n\nAB:\tYou just have to go along. This whole house has to go along in stages, because when you’re living in it, you can’t just completely tear everything up and have a crew of people in here and just start welding a sledge hammer and knocking out walls to put in wiring XE \"wiring\"  and things like that. It has to be done real carefully. I mean—just like the air conditioning XE \"air conditioning\" . The company that we finally had install the ductwork XE \"ductwork\"  and set up the air conditioning—after we designed what we wanted—told us where we should cut the holes and how big they should be for the vents, and we did that very carefully. I mean—it probably took a week for this floor and the second floor, working all day long.\n\nSB:\tWe were cutting lap and plastic. \n\nAB:\tWe felt—and we were very careful and did as little amount of damage XE \"damage\"  we could. We had to move the—you know—we’d start to cut through in a spot and determine that there was a structural member there that we didn’t feel we could remove, and we have to change things up. It was quite a project XE \"project\" , but they were like—in one hole they made the ductwork XE \"ductwork\"  like an eighth of an inch larger than what it was supposed to be. They just sent anybody over here, in a couple of cases, to do this job.\n\nSB:\tReally they were a bunch of high school kids.\n\nAB:\tOne of them just took a hammer and just started beating on the wall, and he knocked big hunks of plaster XE \"plaster\"  off like that. Well, needless to say, that was sort of traumatic for Steve and I, because we had worked on this thing so hard not to make a big mess.\n\nSB:\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=4485.0,4616.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") Well, and the same thing with the wiring XE \"wiring\" , when you’re running a wire. All of these walls between the studs have what they call a fire barrier XE \"fire barrier\" , which is either a 1-by-4 or a 2-by-4 nailed between the studs. This house has what they called balloon framing, which means that the studs go all the way from the ground floor, all the way up to the attic XE \"attic\"  in one piece. If you don’t put these fire barriers between the walls—if you ever had a fire, since there is no insulation XE \"insulation\"  or anything, those—\n\nAB:\t—from the attic XE \"attic\"  from the chimney.\n\nSB:\tIn order to help prevent that, they put these in between each stud on both the first and the second floor—they put what they call fire barriers. \n\nSB:\tThat stabilizes the house tremendously too, because the studs can’t—\n\nAB:\tAlthough it does present a problem when you go to run some wiring XE \"wiring\" . You can’t just dangle the wire down through the stud. You have to find out where the fire barrier XE \"fire barrier\"  is, drill a little hole there—actually cut a little piece out, and then fish the wire through. The fire barrier is not necessarily in the same place between each stud. \n\nSB:\tNo, they just put them in—\n\nAB:\tThey just put them in randomly.\n\nSB:\tThey put them in anywhere. \n\nAB:\tWe’d have to run a tape down there and sort of feel around where it was and then measure it all outside, and then take a little drill and drill few little holes. We actually hit the stud.\n\nSB:\tThis house could probably be rewired in a day easily by several real good electricians, but when you have to go around with all of this, it could run into weeks. We just don’t want people trying to—\n\nAB:\tThose kinds of people are not careful.\n\nSB:\tWell, some of them aren’t.\n\nAB:\tMost of them aren’t. They’re interested in their own aspect of the job, and if something is in their way, they just take a hammer or a hatchet and knock a hole in there and run there thing anywhere along. Then it is up to you to get a plaster XE \"plaster\"  man or something in here and repair the mess they’ve made in order to get their job done.\n\nI:\tIn the restoration XE \"restoration\"  that you’ve done thus far, what is the most problematical and costly thing?\n\nAB:\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=4616.0,4761.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") I don’t know. Everything seems to be. \n\nSB:\tThis type of work just fights you every step of the way. \n\nAB:\tThere are so many unknowns.\n\nSB:\tYou need a part—you need a special screw or something and you go to the hardware store, and you look through 500 different sizes, and the exact thing you need is just not there. We make stuff. We have a little machine shop, and we make a lot of stuff we need, because it is just not available. There are so many of these restoration XE \"restoration\"  companies that are selling all of this stuff today to restore XE \"restore\"  it with, but a lot of things we need—they’re just not available, and that look the same way.\n\nI:\tWhat is the story of getting it re-roofed? It is an awfully high roof XE \"roof\" . \n\nAB:\tThat was sort of an interesting thing. We got bids from probably 4 or 5 roofing companies. Finally, we got a bid from one fellow that he seemed like he knew what he was talking about, and his bid was reasonable. I thought it was very reasonable for redoing this roof XE \"roof\" , and they did do a very good job, which his company—his roofers were good. First of all, he got a crew of Mexicans XE \"Mexicans\"  out here. My dad met them down here—I think—the second day after I bought the house. They got up on the roof and wandered around and came down and had a conference under the Magnolia tree. They told my dad that they were not going to reroof this house under any circumstances—that he owed them $50 for coming out there. \n\n\tHe ran them off and called the roofing contractor XE \"contractor\" , and he said that he would get another crew. He got another crew out here in several days. Several days later he had a crew that would do the job. They reroofed it, and it didn’t take them horribly long, but there was some work that had to be done. The front porch XE \"porch\"  was just completely termite XE \"termite\" -eaten up. The roof XE \"roof\"  of the front porch was in terrible shape. When they took off the roof, we had our carpenter XE \"carpenter\"  working on that at the same time that they were working up above and he was doing that. They were having massive flare-ups, as we a couple of guys. One guy was the roofing company and the carpenter that were very tangible.\n\nSB:\tAntagonistic.\n\nAB:\tThey just—it was just a constant battle between these two guys. These roofers were—\n\nI:\tOne getting in the other one’s way?\n\nAB:\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=4761.0,4924.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") Oh yeah. One would say do such and such, and the other one would be, “No, you can’t do that.” \n\nSB:\tThe roofers were anxious just to get in there and cover up all of this rotten wood by putting shingles XE \"shingles\"  on top of it. The carpenter XE \"carpenter\"  was very conscientious. He wanted to replace all of the studs that were rotten.\n\nAB:\tThe carpenter XE \"carpenter\"  would turn his back, and a couple of roofers would run down a bale shingles XE \"shingles\"  and—we had a couple of battles here.\n\nI:\tYou went with wood shingles XE \"shingles\" , didn’t you?\n\nAB:\tThat is what it originally had. The originally roof XE \"roof\" —I think—had cypress shingles XE \"shingles\" . Then it was re-roofed at one point. I don’t even know when.\n\nSB:\tProbably in the ‘30s.\n\nAB:\tThis is the third roof XE \"roof\"  that has been on the house right now. Always it has a wood roof. That is what we wanted. Actually, it was the wood roof and a composition roof cost the same amount of money, because they were going to have to sheet this roof with plywood. I thought, well, I would much rather have the wooden shingle roof, because it looks right with the house.\n\nSB:\tWe did have the shingles XE \"shingles\"  treated with a fire retardant to help.\n\nF:\tThis won’t go on the tape or anything. What company was it?\n\nAB:\tI think it was Birdwell—was the roofing man. Then we had some of his men do some work for us at a later time—you know—on their own. Steve cut all new fish scale shingles XE \"shingles\"  for these little awnings on the house, and we had one of the roofers come back and do that just on his own.\n\nI:\tThere has been a minor tempest in a tea pot that I would like to address here, and that is the tempest over the color on the side. I wanted to hear about that.\n\nAB:\tWe feel a little better about it, because we’ve seen some houses that are being restored that had this same color scheme here and there. \n\nI:\tWhat did it have originally on it?\n\nAB:\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=4924.0,5038.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") Well, the original color—from what we can tell—was sort of a cream going into a custom color. \n\nSB:\tThere was a slight yellow. \n\nAB:\tIt was very similar to the color we painted the trim XE \"trim\"  on the house, but the body of the house was painted that with dark green trim. I think the next time it was painted, the body of the house was painted dark green and the trim white, and that’s the way it was—\n\nSB:\tThe trim XE \"trim\"  was first custom-colored—in sort of a reverse—and then later on was painted white.\n\nAB:\tThe trim XE \"trim\"  was white—right. I wanted to have the house still stay in a green color, because everybody knew the house as the green house for many years. We did pick this color, which was sort of a compromise.\n\nI:\tHow would you describe this color on this house? Is it a light green?\n\nAB:\tYeah, this is sort of a light green. It is sort of an antique XE \"antique\"  green. It is sort of the—I don’t know. I’ve seen it on certain city things—this exact color of green. I don’t know what—\n\nSB:\tThey did have one color specially mixed. We went over to James Bute XE \"James Bute\" , which is an original paint company here in Houston XE \"Houston\" . They were somewhat interested in donating paint—not actually donating it, but they gave it to us at cost. They worked with us on developing that color. It was not one of their pre-made colors. It was something that they had custom made for us. \n\nAB:\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=5038.0,5140.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") We felt that this is one green that we could go with on the house that sort of represented a lot of the things that was on it in the past. We used the dark green for the accent colors and the windows and things like that. I think our colors are fairly good for the house. The paint has been very good too. We’ve had it on for 3 years now, and there have been no problems with it. We prepared it pretty well to start with, and we used good paint. A lot of these houses that are being restored around, and after a year, the paint is all coming right off.\n\nF:\tIt’s an oil-based paint?\n\nAB:\tNo, it’s latex.\n\nSB:\tThere were two schools of thought on that, although since the majority of the siding XE \"siding\"  had been replaced—or I’d say—at least two-thirds of it—they recommended the acrylic as opposed to the oil. Some people say, “Well, you need the oil, because it penetrates the wood and helps keep it from drying out.” Then others say, “Well, you get better protection from an acrylic.” One thing we did have to be careful about—most of the old paint—I guess—was a lead base paint XE \"lead base paint\" , which is sort of dangerous to work with. We’ve been finding, especially in the upstairs, woodwork that was originally just varnished and had been painted over many times. It is quite a problem.\n\nAB:\tHorrible, horrible job. It is dirty and nasty. Now, there is so much——it is somewhat dangerous because of all of the lead dust. \n\nSB:\tYou worry about how much lead are you taking in today and that sort of thing.\n\nI:\tWhat was originally on the walls of this house? Was it paint? Was there any—?\n\nAB:\tThe interior XE \"interior\" ?\n\nI:\tYeah, was there any wallpaper XE \"wallpaper\" ?\n\nAB:\tWell, this room—we know—was papered. The music room or whatever—what we call it—it was originally the family room. Many of the other rooms did have paper. I don’t know about the dining room—\n\nSB:\tI’d say it’s hard to say about this, because you had this stippled painted over it.\n\nAB:\t—but just about all of the house was papered.\n\nSB:\tAll of the rooms that had paper originally—when we’ve gone to remove paper—you’d see evidence of paper underneath plus the plaster XE \"plaster\"  had never been painted, so we can assume that it always had paper of some sort. We’ve tried to—when we repapered—pick out paper that is compatible with that era.\n\nI:\tWhat rooms—what parts have you repapered?\n\nAB:\tWell, we redid the kitchen XE \"kitchen\"  and the music room so far. We’ve purchased our paper for the upstairs, but we haven’t gotten the woodwork stripped. \n\nSB:\tNo, just the hallway. \n\nI:\tAt this point in your restoration XE \"restoration\"  job, what is more advanced, as far as—what is the more advanced part—the downstairs?\n\nAB:\tWell, I think the downstairs is much more advanced, but there are a lot of things upstairs that have been done that you don’t see—like wiring XE \"wiring\"  and plumbing XE \"plumbing\"  and things like that that are hidden. The first interior XE \"interior\"  project XE \"project\"  we had really was the kitchen XE \"kitchen\" . That was the first thing, because my mother was cooking on a hot plate and in an electric skillet. It was insane. \n\nSB:\tWe were talking about problems that developed. We got real enthusiastic about working on the kitchen XE \"kitchen\" , since it was such a hardship to be shuffling between the little butler’s pantry. We had a makeshift kitchen and a little burner in there. We decided well, we’re going to get busy and get the kitchen done. Then we determined that the plumbing XE \"plumbing\"  in the upstairs bathroom was just completely gone. It had to be completely redone. Well, the only access to that is through the ceiling in the kitchen. Naturally, all of that plumbing work had to be done before we could drop our ceiling in the kitchen and do our ductwork XE \"ductwork\"  and stuff like that for the kitchen stuff. \n\n\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=5140.0,5431.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") Then we determined well, to remove this old cast iron drainpipe and stuff that had almost rusted through in some spots—we thought well, it will take a week. No, we thought it would take a couple of days maybe—to get all of that out of there. Well, it ended up taking a week getting it all out of there. That is the kind of thing we’ve been running into. We’re not exactly experts in the field of restoration XE \"restoration\"  or doing these things, but we have done enough work on antique XE \"antique\"  things to sort of have a rule of thumb on what it takes to do something. In most cases, it has taken at least twice as long as what we’ve estimated to do a job.\n\nI:\tThat is a rule of thumb, then about twice?\n\nAB:\tAbout twice—yeah.\n\nSB:\tThere are so many unknowns involved. You look at a job, and it looks simple and straightforward. By the time you tear it all apart, you’ve run into all kinds of problems that you didn’t even think were there at the time of planning it out. That’s generally been the case in everything we’ve done.\n\nI:\tAt the time of this interview, what are the major things yet to be done?\n\nAB:\tWell, we have to—we need to complete the electrical, and we really need to add—\n[OH373_02 ends] (","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=5431.0,5524.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") \n\n[OH373_03]\nI:\tOkay, the electrical, and then what else besides that?\n\nAB:\tWell, we want to add a couple of bathrooms to the house and finish the decorating. We haven’t really done any decorating to speak of. A lot of them are expensive projects. We have some things to do on the exterior XE \"exterior\" . We need to finish working on the foundation XE \"foundation\"  of the house. We need a fence XE \"fence\"  desperately, just for security. Originally the house had a fence around it. We want a fence back around it. \n\nF:\tWhat kind of fence XE \"fence\" ?\n\nAB:\tWell, we had thought about putting up an iron fence XE \"fence\" , although the house originally had a picket fence. Now, we talked with a fellow at the Texas XE \"Texas\"  Historical Commission XE \"Texas Historical Commission\" , and they suggested that we put up a picket fence again or a modern fence, so as not to conflict with the—\n\nSB:\tNot to confuse the public XE \"public\" .\n\nAB:\t—confuse the public XE \"public\" —yes.\n\nSB:\t—in thinking that what you’ve put there was what was there originally. I disagree with their thinking on that.\n\nI:\tWhy is that? Why do you disagree?\n\nAB:\tWell, because the reason we wanted an iron fence XE \"fence\"  over a picket fence mainly was because an iron fence is much more substantial. The type of iron fence we’re thinking of is an exact copy of an 1890’s Victorian XE \"Victorian\"  wrought iron fence—sort of a loop and sphere design. The only reason that they may not have had an iron fence in the first place was probably because of expense. This is a large yard. We’re going to require over 500 feet of fence, which makes it impossible to use actual antique XE \"antique\"  iron fence, because you can’t locate that quantity of the same type of fence. We have had several bids on copying the iron fence. We’ve seen actual samples of it, and it is very authentic XE \"authentic\"  looking. If you didn’t know that it was a reproduction XE \"reproduction\" , you wouldn’t know. \n\n\tIf we put up a picket fence XE \"fence\" , then you have to worry about termites. You can use treated wood and that sort of thing, but regardless it is going to require painting every few years, and it is not nearly as substantial as an iron fence. I wonder—with the bus stop right out here—if you’re going to have people carving their initials in it or leaning up against it or pulling some of the pickets out or whatever.\n\nSB:\tWe have a big problem there too of people—they’ll sit under that tree and wait for the bus. People change their baby’s diapers, and they leave their dirty pamper laying on the lawn, which we’re required to go pick up. They throw lunch out there, and they throw their trash all over. That is sort of discouraging. We work hard to keep the yard nice. It’s just pitiful, and you want to call them pigs, but we don’t.\n\nAB:\tOne of the things we’ve noticed with the Texas XE \"Texas\"  historical marker out front, a lot of people feel that this is a public XE \"public\"  building. I’m not kidding you. Many people have told us they thought this building belonged to the Houston XE \"Houston\"  public library. They thought it belonged to the parks department—any number of things. We have people wandering up on the porch XE \"porch\"  and looking in the windows.\n\nSB:\tWe’ve had people come in—when we first got the house, and we didn’t keep the front doors locked, we had people come right in the house. \n\n\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=5524.0,7434.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") You walk up to them and say, “Can we help you with something?” “Oh, no, I just want to look around.” I say, “Well, this is a private residence.” “Oh,”—you know—that type of a—so I really feel that it would serve the house well to have a fence XE \"fence\"  up to protect it.\n\nI:\tHas there been any vandalism on the house?\n\nAB:\tWell, we talked with Hamilton XE \"Hamilton\"  about that, and he said that there were several incidents of break-in here, but I don’t think it was anything too great. This house has always sort of been protected against a lot of bad things. It was probably for 5 years, it just sat there uninhabited. Nothing really bad happened. \n\nSB:\tAlthough they did have a groundskeeper XE \"groundskeeper\"  who had a key to the house himself.\n\nAB:\tYeah, but he was only here a few hours once a week that sort of kept an eye on it.\n\nSB:\tHamilton XE \"Hamilton\"  said some little boys crawled in on the side of the steps, and were having their little ceremonies and started a fire. \n\nAB:\tNow, she was still living there.\n\nSB:\tWas she?\n\nAB:\tThey did have an actual break-in. Some dope addict broke into the basement XE \"basement\"  and was trying to work his way up to the upstairs, but didn’t make it.\n\nSB:\tHe couldn’t find the way upstairs.\n\nAB:\tThe police actually caught him. Really, there was no severe damage XE \"damage\"  done—nothing really stolen from the house.\n\nI:\tWho were the Milroy’s? Who were they? How many were there associated with this house?\n\nAB:\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=7434.0,7536.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") With this house? Well, there was father and mother, John and Nelly Milroy.\n\nI:\tHer name was what?\n\nAB:\tNelly. Wasn’t that right, Steven? Then 2 daughters and a son—it was Margaret and Helen XE \"Helen\" , and the son was Hamilton XE \"Hamilton\" . Those were the 5 that lived in the house.\n\nI:\tDid they get married or what? \n\nAB:\tHelen XE \"Helen\"  lived with them.\n\nSB:\tShe was the oldest. John died in 1917—I guess—the father. She—sort of—took over the father’s business—the real estate XE \"real estate\"  business. He had been the mayor of the Heights XE \"Heights\"  when the Heights was a separate little community from Houston XE \"Houston\" . Then the other daughter, Mary, she married and moved to Hawaii XE \"Hawaii\" . Hamilton XE \"Hamilton\" , the son, who was the youngest, was born in this house in 1898. He had gone to Yale up in Connecticut XE \"Connecticut\" . He graduated from there and came back down and worked for Cameron Iron for about a year or a year and a half—I think he said. He had a met a girl while he was up in Connecticut, and then he left his job here and went back up there and married her and stayed up there then and started his own business—a rock crushing equipment business. \n\nI:\tHave you found any accounts of any kind of social events XE \"social events\"  that took place in this house?\n\nAB:\tIt’s sort of hard to say, because—like we say—after John Milroy died—I mean—I’m sure, in the early days, there was quite a bit of entertaining and so forth going on here, when he was mayor and one of the prominent citizens of this community, plus a real estate XE \"real estate\"  agent for the Heights XE \"Heights\"  area. I think after the mother died in the late 1920s—actually, 1927—I think Helen XE \"Helen\"  was a businesswoman, but she was not much on entertaining and so forth. I think—as a woman living alone in a big house like this—I think she did not do a whole lot of entertaining. Although, we did find a little group of—like cocktail napkins that said—what did it say?\n\nSB:\tThe time at Helen XE \"Helen\" ’s—or maybe it was coffee time at Helen’s or something.\n\nAB:\tYeah, time for coffee at Helen XE \"Helen\" ’s or something like that, so she did do—and she did belong to some of the woman’s organizations. She belonged to the Episcopal church downtown—the cathedral—so she did have some women entertainment, but I don’t think after John died that there were any big entertaining things going on here, simply because she was a woman alone.\n\nF:\tDidn’t you say before that she lived here with a dog XE \"dog\" ?\n\nAB:\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=7536.0,7740.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") Oh, yeah—he dog XE \"dog\" —her big German Shepherd. \n\nI:\tWhat was his name? Do you remember it?\n\nAB:\tYou know—I can’t remember what his name was.\n\nI:\tYou did know at one time?\n\nAB:\tYeah, we did. There were several pictures in some of the photograph albums of her with the dog XE \"dog\" .\n\nSB:\t—especially of the dog XE \"dog\" . \n\nAB:\tHamilton XE \"Hamilton\"  was telling us too that in later years that was a great comfort to her, because—I guess—the dog XE \"dog\"  offered her a certain amount of protection, because she was always alone. \n\nI:\tWhich brings up a story that is pertinent to us in the archives—what were the stories in the papers that you all found? When you first got in here, you found them or—?\n\nAB:\tWell, I knew that they existed. Actually, Bart Truxillo XE \"Bart Truxillo\"  brought that up to our attention. We saw—when we came and viewed the house the first time, it was obvious there were just tons of stuff like that in the house. I mean—in any one hallway there was a stack of books XE \"books\"  like that and all of the ledgers XE \"ledgers\"  that we gave you and just lots of stuff, and every drawer just loaded and file cabinets everywhere. \n\nSB:\tWith John being the mayor of the Heights XE \"Heights\"  originally and also being instrumental—he was one of the original developers of the Heights—there were a lot of original land records, as far as sales of lots and that sort of thing, which had been maintained by Helen XE \"Helen\"  after his death. She sort of took over that end of his business.\n\nI:\tIt is a fundamental Heights XE \"Heights\"  real estate XE \"real estate\"  collection. What made you all decide to give it to the public XE \"public\"  library?\n\nAB:\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=7740.0,7843.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") Well, see, that was one of the first things I was thinking about—what to do with all of that material, because it was not too good here. Originally, I thought well, maybe I’ll give it to the Heights XE \"Heights\"  Association and leave it in care of the library here in the Heights. Then you contacted me almost immediately after I closed the sale on the house—I mean—in fact, I think it was—like 2 days after I closed on the house, you called me. I thought that would obviously be the best place for it. \n\nSB:\tHow did you all find out about those records?\n\nI:\tYou know—I’ll have to check my records. Somebody called us.\n\nSB:\tIt may have been Bart Truxillo XE \"Bart Truxillo\" .\n\nI:\tI believe it was Bart.\n\nSB:\t—because he was very concerned that the records not be pitched out or something.\n\nAB:\tIn fact—I don’t know—I think it was Bart that brought a lot of that down from the attic XE \"attic\"  at one point, when he viewed the house—into a less-wet spot to keep it, but I’m not positive that it was him, but I believe that it was.\n\nI:\tI think it was Bart—someone associated with real estate XE \"real estate\"  called us and said that there were these individuals who purchased this and gave me Alan Bies’ name and said that he would be very receptive to you coming around that proposition.\n\nAB: \tI had discussed it with Bart about what to do with the papers.\n\nI:\tThat’s when we followed up. I can tell you—as you know—it’s a wealth of material—ledgers XE \"ledgers\" .\n\nAB:\tThere might still be some things in the attic XE \"attic\" . There is still a chest up there that may still have some papers in it. \n\nSB:\tI don’t know if we went through it, so we need to go through that and see if you can take those too—if there is anything.\n\nI:\tWhat did the family decide to keep from the possessions?\n\nAB:\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=7843.0,7962.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") Not a whole lot—they gave some things out of the house to friends—to help some of Helen XE \"Helen\" ’s friends that wanted something. They made a present to the caretaker. They did take pictures. I think that is about all they took out of the house was just those pictures of the family.\n\nSB:\tThey took the silverware, which I think was not in the house. I think it was in a vault downtown. They took some family pictures—just like—young Hamilton XE \"Hamilton\"  came down—the son—Hami Junior they called him—Hami Senior or Hami Junior. \n\nI:\tOh, the grandson, then?\n\nSB:\tThe grandson came down, because his father was just too old to make that trip. Evidently, he and his wife took a picture of each member of the family that they could identify, and I think that is about all.\n\nAB:\tThey gave two of the bookcases away. There was a china cabinet here in the dining room that matched the dining room furniture—which was not pretty. It was that mission style, which is sort of that very straight forward. It is sturdy looking, but not pretty. It’s not decorative.\n\nSB:\tThey gave that away.\n\nAB:\tThey gave that to the yard man—the caretaker—which also had a large collection of a lot of Lalique glass XE \"Lalique glass\" .\n\nSB:\tShe collected a lot of Lalique, and they gave it away. That is sort of a shame. Don’t print that, because the yard man would be probably careful of that to get around.\n\nF:\tIt seems like they were amazingly—I don’t know what the word—un-greedy about leaving things here.\n\nAB:\tYeah, right—they really did seem to be—\n\nSB:\tWell—I think—it is one of those situations where the majority of the family is so far away. The sister was still alive at the time, but she has since passed away.\n\nI:\tWhich sister?\n\nSB:\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=7962.0,8087.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") Margaret—she died before we visited Hamilton XE \"Hamilton\"  in the fall of 1980.\n\nAB:\tShe had just died that summer.\n\nI:\tWhy did you all visit Hamilton XE \"Hamilton\" ?\n\nAB:\tWell, we were up in Connecticut XE \"Connecticut\"  for a music box society convention. I meant—that was one of our big plans, since we were up in that area. We were planning to visit him.\n\nSB:\tIn fact, we’re planning on visiting him again this year, when the meeting—\n\nI:\tWhat did you learn from him?\n\nAB:\tOh, well, it was really fabulous. We visited for several hours, and he just told us all kinds of stories about the house and the family.\n\nSB:\tWhere are those pictures? I took some pictures of him. I found them the other day.\n\nAB:\t—of him and his wife. He was very cordial—just tickled to death to have us there. \n\nSB:\tThat just meant so much to him—I think—and to us too—even more to us. \n\nAB:\tIt was interesting to ask certain things about the house. We asked him what the configurations of the bedrooms were—who slept where and whatever. He said the front bedroom was kept as a guestroom. The middle bedroom was the master bedroom for his mother and dad. The back bedroom, the 2 girls shared, and the side bedroom was his bedroom.\n\nSB:\tHe said that little alcove off of the middle bedroom was the—when he was born, that was his nursery XE \"nursery\" .\n\nAB:\tThat was the nursery XE \"nursery\" . We had noticed since we—\n\nSB:\tAll upstairs. It was all upstairs. \n\nAB:\tWe had noticed since we removed the baseboards from there that the in the wiring XE \"wiring\"  that originally there was an entrance from the front bedroom into that alcove. Somewhere, probably around 1915, when they did a lot of major changes—there were balconies XE \"balconies\"  above all of those things, and some going onto the porch XE \"porch\"  roof XE \"roof\"  and stuff like that. He had all of that removed about 1915, because it was not—they had those floor-type windows that actually made into a door. They went all the way to the floor, and you could raise them up and walk out. They took all of that out and changed it up.\n\nI:\tWhy do you suppose they did that?\n\nAB:\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=8087.0,8219.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") When we talked to Hamilton XE \"Hamilton\"  about that, he said his dad—he said those balconies XE \"balconies\"  were totally unusable, because he said most of them faced the west, and they had a tin deck. He said that the afternoon sun would hit that deck, and he said you could fry an egg out there it was so hot.\n\nSB:\tI imagine when the decorative parts got rotten and needed work, they just did away with them. We’re going to put that back on the house, although we did remove the little decks and had the roof XE \"roof\"  there, because that was collecting water up near the house. That was one of the major damages.\n\nAB:\tThat was one of the main termite XE \"termite\"  damage XE \"damage\" .\n\nSB:\t—the termite XE \"termite\"  damages. The termites didn’t have to go down to the ground to get water. \n\nAB:\tThey came up onto the porch XE \"porch\"  posts, and they just—the whole thing was all just eaten up there. They hadn’t bothered the house, but the porch roof XE \"roof\"  was just completely structurally just eaten up. We were out there—had been out there walking around and kinds of things. It is surprising that in some places that it was supported anymore, it was in such bad condition XE \"condition\" . \n\nSB:\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=8219.0,8289.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") There is a secret passageway that goes from the central bedroom into the back bedroom through a closet and a door that just goes right through here. When we first saw that, we were just ecstatic about it, because you always hear about these secret passages in Victorian XE \"Victorian\"  houses. We asked Hamilton XE \"Hamilton\"  about that, and he was very—\n\nSB:\t—non-committal.\n\nAB:\tYeah—like he hardly even knew what we were talking about. We always thought well, there must be some hanky-panky going on. This was before we really knew much of the history of the house—that it really had been in the same family its entire history.\n\nI:\tI wonder—what was the cause of having that secret passage?\n\nAB:\tWell, we talked to several people about that, and they said that wasn’t uncommon to have a little passage in Victorian XE \"Victorian\"  bedrooms.\n\nSB:\tWell, sometimes for a servant purposes, in order for—if she had to go and check on the child or something, you wouldn’t use the simple hallway or something like that. It didn’t really have that great of a function—I mean—as far as—\n\nI:\tIt was very utilitarian in that way.\n\nSB:\tYeah, although it seemed like it would’ve been just as easy to walk out through the hall and walk around. \n\nAB:\tYeah, it is very strange. \n\nI:\tAnything else come to mind about the Milroy’s that you learned from Hamilton XE \"Hamilton\"  about them in the house? There is probably so much that—\n\nAB:\tYeah, I really—I mean—we talked for a couple of hours about very specific things, and I’m trying to think. Oh, upstairs in the attic XE \"attic\" , there were 2 signs tacked to the rafters up there. One of them said “bald-headed row,” and the other one said “nigger heaven,” but nigger was misspelled. We asked him about that, because we thought, “Well, that certainly is strange for that to be tacked up there in the attic.” He said that what that was—that was a school play that his 2 sisters were in shortly after the turn of the century. Those 2 signs represented a certain area in the attic that they had to move from one place to the next.\n\nSB:\tHe said bald-headed row was the first row in the theatre—like the boxes and that, where all the rich old men used to be. A lot of them were bald-headed, and they called that bald-headed row. He said that the girls needed an audience, so they tied him up in a chair. He did not want to be there while they rehearsed, and they tied him in a chair. He was the audience there and had to watch this. He said he could remember being tied up.\n\nI:\tWhat about the other one—nigger heaven? What was that?\n\nSB:\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=8289.0,8466.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") I don’t know. It all was out of the same deal, though.\n\nI:\tSchool-related?\n\nSB:\tYeah, a play—the school play. \n\nAB:\tWe wondered about that the first time we went up to the third floor.\n\nI:\tAnything in the house—have you learned anything about the Milroy’s just by being in the house itself?\n\nSB:\tWell, they were a very intelligent, educated family, and very well-read, as you noticed in all of the volumes—just no end of the books XE \"books\" . I don’t think they were extremely wealthy XE \"wealthy\"  or anything. They wouldn’t have lived in this house if they had been super-wealthy, but they were pretty well off.\n\nAB:\tWe noticed one thing about the construction of the house too, as far as nothing was spared, as far as the construction of the house went—as far as the strength or quality of materials or anything like that. As far as the decorative items, some of the Victorian XE \"Victorian\"  houses—they had super elaborate chandeliers and all kinds of super-decorative cabinetwork and that sort of thing. This house did not have that. We feel that the majority of the money spent in construction was on actual—\n\nSB:\tOf course, this was the country then too. This wasn’t downtown Houston XE \"Houston\" . This was a ways out.\n\nI:\tHow did this house compare to the other big houses on Heights XE \"Heights\"  Boulevard XE \"Heights Boulevard\" ?\n\nAB:\tI think it compared pretty well. I think that there were a couple of superior houses. The Cooley house XE \"Cooley house\"  was much superior to this house. \n\nSB:\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=8466.0,8570.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") Actually—I think—only the Cooley house XE \"Cooley house\"  though, was vastly superior. If you look at original Heights XE \"Heights\"  brochures on the qualities of living here in this neighborhood, this is one of the prominent houses shown in that brochure, as was the Cooley house and a half of a dozen others. Some of them are commercial locations. In fact, we were looking at that the other day and determined that—I think—out of all of the structures pictured on that original flyer from right around the turn of the century, this house and Bart Truxillo XE \"Bart Truxillo\" ’s house—\n\nAB:\tI think James’ house is pictured.\n\nSB:\tNo.\n\nAB:\tWasn’t it?\n\nSB:\tJames’ house is not pictured.\n\nAB:\tOh, that was later. \n\nSB:\t—in 1907. Yeah, but at any rate, these 2 structures are the only ones still in existence of the ones that are pictured on the original flyer. Obviously, they considered this one of the preeminent houses of the neighborhood at the time. \n\nI:\tWhat type of person does it take to restore XE \"restore\"  a house?\n\nAB:\tSomeone crazy.\n\nSB:\tSomebody who is nuts. (laughs)\n\nAB:\tWell—I don’t know—I think you have to have interest in it.\n\nSB:\tYeah, you have to have a real dedication to preserving something that is really special.\n\nI:\tWhat are your all’s business? I mean—that might have something—\n\nAB:\tWe were in the antique XE \"antique\"  music box business, and we deal in and restore XE \"restore\"  antique music boxes XE \"music boxes\" . Probably we will get into a lot more antique stuff eventually and furniture and that sort of thing.\n\nI:\tDo you think that interest might have contributed to—?\n\nAB:\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=8570.0,8677.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") Oh, I think definitely. I mean—when you start acquiring all of this stuff, you have to have a place to show it or to keep, and it just doesn’t fit in a modern house. Physically, some of the pieces don’t fit—like the big orchestrian there. It is over 10 feet tall.\n\nI:\tYou’ve got to have high ceilings XE \"ceilings\" .\n\nAB:\tRight and I always thought I’d like to have a house I could have that machine in. Then we got this house. There is only one place in the whole house that it would go inside.\n\nSB:\tWell—you know—we’ve looked at a lot of Victorian XE \"Victorian\"  houses in other parts of the country too, where they are a lot more plentiful than they are here in the Houston XE \"Houston\"  area. Generally speaking, the major Victorian houses of Houston were right in the downtown area at the time that Houston was a relatively small town. Since the city has mushroomed into the giant place that it is today, 99 percent of all of its original architecture XE \"architecture\" , especially residential, have been destroyed. Even so, in this house, we have looked—like all through the east—gone through a lot of these old towns where they are virtually undisturbed from the time that they were built. This house compares very favorably or even superior to a lot of the Victorian architecture that you see, so we’re real excited about it, especially since there is hardly anything left in Houston worth looking at now. \n\nAB:\tIt’s really sad. You go to Galveston XE \"Galveston\"  or you go to San Antonio XE \"San Antonio\" , and that is all you see are super houses—one right after another. Here—I mean—there are just a few. I can just stand out in the front yard and watch people drive by and see this house. They just look at this house. It is something really out of the ordinary.\n\nSB:\tIt is unfortunate too that the Heights XE \"Heights\" , being a separate little area—it could’ve been very well preserved—went through a period of great decay in the ‘50s and ‘60s. As a result, massive damage XE \"damage\"  was done to the neighborhood as a whole, as far as its original character of the Heights.\n\nAB:\t—especially on Heights XE \"Heights\"  Boulevard XE \"Heights Boulevard\" .\n\nSB:\tThe Boulevard, which was the jewel of the neighborhood—I mean—a good majority of the wealthier people had some very lovely Victorian XE \"Victorian\"  homes along the Boulevard and a lot of property XE \"property\"  and stuff to go along with it. Now, I’d say, at least, 50 percent of it is gone. What is left—a lot of it has turned commercial or is being used as rent property, where you have—let’s say—50 Mexicans XE \"Mexicans\"  living in a house designed to handle one or two families, which is bad for the neighborhood. I think that eventually it will sort of clear itself up, because the property value has gone so high that it is no longer as desirable as it was when you could buy a lot of these little Victorian cottages 10 years ago for $10,000 or $12,000 or $15,000. Now, the roughest ones will go for $75,000. \n\nI:\tWhich brings up a good point—what do you think the future of us restoring some houses around here or in the Heights XE \"Heights\"  is going be?\n\nAB:\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=8677.0,8913.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") Well, I think the Heights XE \"Heights\"  has a fantastic future, because of its proximity to downtown. I mean—I can be downtown in 3 minutes from here, providing there is not a train or something. It is really good. I think that—we’ve been talking a lot lately about building all of these townhouses and things, and they are starting to take down some houses—some old houses—in here and build some new structures.\n\nSB:\tWell, see that is one thing that does worry us, though—the property XE \"property\"  value—just the value of the dirt itself—has gotten so high that in a lot of instances, it no longer becomes feasible to redo a little Victorian XE \"Victorian\"  cottage that may only have 1,200 or 1,400 square feet on a fairly good-sized lot. You have to pay so much just for the dirt underneath it, that a lot of people went to—I want a much bigger house than that, and I’ll have to either add onto it and make a big mess, or just completely tear it down and start over with something else. \n\nI:\tWe’ve talked a little bit about this. We’ve talked quite a bit about it. What are some of the other problems associated with living in an historical landmark XE \"historical landmark\" ? People thinking it is a park outside and wandering in—\n\nSB:\tIt is—like living in a fishbowl.\n\nAB:\tYou sort of feel that—well, I should say—a lot of people feel that they have a right to it—that the public XE \"public\"  does have a right to it. I think that, to a certain extent, that is true, but to this day, I haven’t received any help from the public either. I mean—in fact, in many cases, anything that I’ve done has just been a struggle to get something done. I wanted some help with something or information or something—there is always somebody there just trying to be an obstacle. I don’t know why they are.\n\nSB:\tOne of the problems is that people look at this house to begin with, and they think right off the bat, well, those people must have a lot of money to even tackle a project XE \"project\"  like that or even think about tackling a project like that—which, in this case, is not the case. \n\nAB:\tThat’s the truth.\n\nSB:\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=8913.0,9071.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") Everything we do has to be very well thought out, as far as where we spend money or anything like that, because it is a very tight budget XE \"budget\"  to play off the house, and then to do the proper kind of restoration XE \"restoration\"  that we want.\n\nAB:\tIt goes very slow, and—I guess too—that’s why we’ve had criticism about some things we’ve done, just like the paint. People feel—well—they have some say-so in what color I’m going to paint this house, and nobody does except me. I’m the only one and the people who live here. I would want everybody associated with the project XE \"project\"  to be happy, but I could care less about what somebody else thinks.\n\nI:\tHow many people are associated with your project XE \"project\" ?\n\nAB:\tJust my—\n\n[OH373_03 ends] (","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=9071.0,9123.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") \n\n[OH373_04]\nI: \tWe were—the problems of living in a historical landmark XE \"historical landmark\" .\n\nAB:\tI don’t think there really are—I think it is more problems living in an old house, rather than anything about an historical landmarks—just other than the people and catering to the public XE \"public\" .\n\nSB:\tThe biggest problem there is just people wandering up and thinking it is some public XE \"public\"  domain.\n\nAB:\tI’m flattered that people like to—\n\nSB:\tWe do the same thing when we’re visiting an area that has a lot of interesting houses. I mean—we drive along and gawk at them. We don’t normally walk up on somebody’s front porch XE \"porch\"  and knock and ask if we can come in or something like that.\n\nI:\tA lot of people do that.\n\nSB:\tI think that historical marker outside promotes a lot of that, because people just have a notion—\n\nAB:\tThat happens everywhere. We had a meeting of our music box society over in San Antonio XE \"San Antonio\"  several weeks ago. I would say the baron of the King William district there—the man who was really responsible for the preservation of the King William district made his house available to our group, because he had some music machines. We did visit his house. We had a couple of people try to come right along with the group—you know—take a tour.\n\nSB:\tYeah, they saw our group walking up, and they saw the historical marker, and they just started walking up too.\n\nI:\tIt’s a natural inclination of people to want to.\n\nAB:\tRight. I feel very flattered that people think a lot about this house. \n\nSB:\tOh, we have had the house on the historical home tour.\n\nAB:\tYeah, and we’ll do that again, but when we have something to show.\n\nF:\tWhen you apply for federal money, are you required to put it on tour?\n\nAB:\tWell, no—I really don’t know exactly what the requirements are. It says it has to be made accessible to the public XE \"public\"  12 days out of the year or something, but that doesn’t say that they have to have access to the inside—I think—just to be able to see the outside. That is one thing I want to find out.\n\nSB:\tWell, we have no problem with people seeing the outside of this house.\n\nI:\tWell, you’re promoting that—I mean—you know—by redoing it, you want it to be a jewel.\n\nAB:\tWell—you know—and that’s another funny thing. We have seen the house lambasted in some instances. In fact, in the Chronicle XE \"Chronicle\" , not too terribly long ago, some poor little old woman who has lived here her entire life was lamenting the fact of the increased property XE \"property\"  value taxes XE \"taxes\" . It showed a picture of our house and said that this is an example of why the property values are going way up, because of the restoration XE \"restoration\"  of these big houses. It had a negative, according to her.\n\nSB:\tI would say, when she went to sell her house, which might be a little bungalow or something, she probably wanted $100,000 for it. When, actually, it is more the greed of the people than—\n\nAB:\tGenerally, though, older people that have been here for 40 or 50 years—retired, and they’re on a fixed income—when their little house was worth $10,000 or $12,000 or $15,000, and the taxes XE \"taxes\"  were a couple of hundred a years or less, it was no great chase in living on social security or a little pension or something. Now, that same little house may be valued at $100,000 or something. The taxes are many hundreds of dollars instead of—and that bites into their fixed income, and they are concerned about it.\n\nI:\tBy the way, how do you all feel about the publicity itself—like being on the front of the phone book?\n\nAB:\tOh, I think it is fabulous. I love it, and I thought that was really a neat thing. I mean—it is really—somebody would call up and say, “I want to bring a music box over to be repaired or something.” They would ask for directions, and I’d say, “Well, look on the front of the Yellow Pages XE \"Yellow Pages\" . There is a picture of the house.” It was really a neat thing.\n\nI:\tHow did you get on there? \n\nAB:\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=9123.0,11073.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") Well, I got a call one day from this gal down at Brook telephone company. She said she was putting together—she might have been from an advertising agency. I can’t recall—but they were exploring different alternatives for the front of the phone book, and would I be interested. I said, “Yeah, that would be fine with me.” They sent the photographer out and took lots of pictures of the house—on the exterior XE \"exterior\" . My dad and mother had him in—coffee and that. Then the artist came out, and he drew—looked it over. Norman Baxter XE \"Norman Baxter\" —he is the one that drew it. After they decided that—\n\nSB:\tHe’s a local artist and lives right down the street from a friend of ours who also is a music box collector, but he does phone book covers for St. Louis XE \"St. Louis\"  and Dallas XE \"Dallas\"  and all over the country, which is sort of interesting. \n\nI:\tHow old of a man is he?\n\nSB:\tWe haven’t met him.\n\nI:\tHe actually—Baxter actually came out and did this, huh?\n\nF:\tI’ve noticed other people sitting in Boulevard Park sketching this house.\n\nAB:\tOh, yeah, all the time—yeah, it—really, at one time—I don’t know if it was someone from the Chronicle XE \"Chronicle\"  or what—said this was the most photographed house in Houston XE \"Houston\" , and that could easily be the case, because it is in a real prominent spot.\n\nSB:\tI remember the first night we slept in this house after Alan got it, and it naturally had—well, it did have air conditioning XE \"air conditioning\" . There was a window unit in that central bedroom upstairs, which we were afraid to run, because we didn’t know what the wiring XE \"wiring\"  was. Actually—I think—we did crank it up, and it got hot, so there was something—\n\nAB:\tThe plug got hot—yeah.\n\nSB:\tWe turned it off. I mean—trying to sleep in this house—it’s like living in the middle of a freeway. Really, you thought you were on the southwest freeway in the middle of rush hour—even late at night.\n\nAB:\t—just at 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning. \n\nSB:\tThere is a train right down here on about Fourth Street. In the middle of the night, it sounded like it was roaring through the front parlor.\n\nAB:\tYeah, it was really something.\n\nI:\tIs it still—?\n\nAB:\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=11073.0,11214.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") Well, we get used to it and that. \n\nF:\tI was surprised how quiet it is, because I live in the Heights XE \"Heights\"  too. I thought it would be noisy here, but you’re really up on ground.\n\nI:\tOne more question—what are the satisfactions? We’ve talked about the hard work. What are the satisfactions of restoring a house like this?\n\nAB:\tOh, I think just personal accomplishment in doing that kind of work. I think really it’s great to be able to do it yourself. You really—you learn so much, and when it is done, you can say, “Well, I did that.” That is a wonderful sense of satisfaction. However, it would be great to have money and just have it done. It really would. No, I think just owning it and restoring it has been wonderful. \n\nI:\tHas the reality lived up to the dream of when you were a child?\n\nAB:\tOh, I think so. If it would go together faster, I would be a lot happier, because it just drives me insane. The biggest problems—or disappointments—is the slowness at which you can accomplish something, if you don’t have a lot of money. If I had a lot of money, or had some money, it would be great, but I don’t, so—\n\nI:\tWhat do you feel you’ve contributed to the community? Do you feel like this is a contribution?\n\nAB:\tOh, I think it definitely is, because it has brought something more to the Heights XE \"Heights\"  and more publicity to the Heights. I do think that every time somebody restores a house here, more people do it. I mean—they take a lot more pride in their house and restore XE \"restore\"  it.\n\nSB:\tIt’s contagious. \n\nAB:\tActually, the rise in property XE \"property\"  values here has been great, because it has pushed out a lot of the bad element. People had bought a house that was a mess and restored it, and now, it—\n\nSB:\tUp to a certain, though, you can say that, but after a certain point, it becomes a problem, because a young family who has an interest in old houses and would like to do that can no longer afford it.\n\nAB:\tThey can’t do it, yeah.\n\nSB:\t—in many instances, because you take a little house that is not a big house—a little Victorian XE \"Victorian\"  cottage—and it may cost $75,000 in a rough state. Then to get it in a nice livable will maybe cost another $50,000 to $75,000. Then you’ve got $150,000 tied up in a little house, and a young family—I mean—you’re talking about a $1,500 or $2,000 a month house payment. That rules out a lot of people pretty quick. \n\nAB:\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=11214.0,11415.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") That is sort of sad. We’ve noticed that in our business—in the music box business. There are so many people that would just love to have a music box, but they’ve gotten expensive. They can’t afford it, and it’s real sad. \n\nSB:\tAnother problem we noticed—like we belong to the Heights XE \"Heights\"  Association, and once a month they have a restoration XE \"restoration\"  committee meeting. General speaking, it is in somebody’s home. In some instances, it has been in businesses that have been redone. Alan and I have coined the phrase of a house having a hysterectomy, because the entire interior XE \"interior\"  may be gutted, and something completely incompatible with its original Victorian XE \"Victorian\"  state is gone. A good example of that is a house right over here on Pardon.\n\nAB: \t—but we won’t mention that in the article.\n\nSB:\t—but that house is receiving a lot of fanfare now. It is going to be published in Houston XE \"Houston\"  Home and Garden—or something like that. To me, that is a very dangerous to do—to glamorize—\n\nAB:\tIt’s just—like if in this house, I decided I wanted—I guess the term is atrium—and I cut the whole floor out of this and had it go up—\n\nSB:\tThat was actually done with that house.\n\nAB:\tThat’s what they did—things like that there.\n\nI:\tYou are against that sort of thing?\n\nAB:\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=11415.0,11508.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") Oh, definitely. I mean—you cannot go in that house now and have the right feeling about that house. \n\nSB: \tIt also has contemporary furnishings and track lighting XE \"lighting\"  and everything—which is not bad, done in the right way,—but when everything is glass and chrome and ultramodern XE \"ultramodern\" —I mean—why take a house that was built in 1895 or 1900 and has charm in its own right, and completely gut it and make the interior XE \"interior\"  into a house that was built in 1980, with the most ultramodern look about it? I mean—why do that? If you wanted that kind of a thing, why take an old house and do that to it? Why not just build a whole new house?\n\nAB:\tA lot of people forget or don’t realize that these houses really are an art form. They really are. They are something that shouldn’t be fooled around with too much, because it’s the wrong thing to do. I think that is why the federal government and the city too are taking an interest in at least preserving the façades of these buildings and keeping them.\n\nI:\tWhat type of intangibles—we talked about tangible raising the image of the place—is there an intangible thing that one would get out of restoring a house like this for the community?\n\nAB:\tI think it is just the pride in the community.\n\nI:\tDo you think it would be good for people to see history like this on the block—sitting on the block—so to speak—I mean—on the city block?\n\nAB:\tOh, yeah, absolutely.\n\nSB:\tEspecially for Houston XE \"Houston\" , since there are so little left.\n\nAB:\tThere are a certain amount of people that could care less about anything like this, but for people that have an interest—I mean—it would be really neat if they could have had the experience of going through this house—just like the way we bought it—just being in it. That was a fantastic experience for me and for all of us it was just fabulous. We just couldn’t—\n\nSB:\tIt seems like in Houston XE \"Houston\"  there has been such an insensitivity to Houston’s past—not just from residential architectural standpoint, but from any kind of a historical standpoint. The general trend is nothing should stand in the way of progress XE \"progress\" , and therefore, we will completely eradicate any remembrance of our past and build a new skyscraper or whatever. I think that really is a shame, because it—you know—some people just have no interest in history, but a lot of people do. It’s interesting to know where you came from and what things were like in a much simpler time. When these houses were built, Houston was a very small city—40,000 or 50,000 people. Around 1900—I guess—it was about 90,000.\n\nI:\tIt was about 40,000. \n\nSB:\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=11508.0,11729.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") That is a relatively small community, compared to less than 100 years later, when it has mushroomed into almost 2 million people. The pace of life is just unbelievable, as compared to that point in time when things were leisurely, and people took a lot of pride in what they did. There just was a whole different attitude about life, in general. Things were laid back.\n\nI:\t—certainly compared to today.\n\nSB:\tRight, exactly. I think everybody should look back at that past and know where the city came from and not just that it mushroomed out of the bayou one day and there it was. A lot of thought went into Houston XE \"Houston\" ’s progress XE \"progress\" . There were very dynamic people, even in the earlier times that forethought this growth—maybe not to the point that it has gone to today, but really had big plans for Houston, and those plans have come out. In a way, that is good, because when you go to a city like Galveston XE \"Galveston\" —which was probably during the turn of the century—I think it was the largest city in Texas XE \"Texas\" . About all they have left today is their past—their history—virtually very little in the way of growth or any dynamism or whatever you want to call it, which is sad too. I mean—there is a lot of past, but, but no future. \n\nAB:\tStill, even though I’d like to see more old structures here in Houston XE \"Houston\" , I’m very proud of Houston. You don’t realize it until you go to a city like Dallas XE \"Dallas\" , and everybody is Dallas this and Dallas that and you—sort of—get defensive of Houston. \n\nSB:\tWe have a friend in St. Louis XE \"St. Louis\"  that had a great big mansion on Lindell Boulevard, which was built right around the turn of the century—in the 1890s. It was a very fine home. It did not—how would you describe Bill’s? It was a super fine house, but it did not have a lot of Victorian XE \"Victorian\"  charm per se. It was just an expensive house—a lot of detail in the workmanship that went into the house itself, but not a feeling like this. A few years, and he spent a tremendous amount of money trying to restore XE \"restore\"  it. Finally, the house did him in. He ended up selling it, and he sold it for considerably—when he bought it, it was in a depressed area, and he bought it for practically nothing. He sold it for 4 times what he paid for it. What was my point?\n\nAB:\tWell, maybe about what it did to him—I don’t know.\n\nI:\tI’ll tell you what a good point is. Was there ever a point when you thought this house would do you in?\n\nAB:\tOh, yeah—I mean—I still think that, but I’ve just gotten a little bit more relaxed about it. \n\nSB:\tOh, I remember now what my point was. He came down, and he looked at this house—went through it with us before Alan bought it. He looked at it, and he said, “Well this house is a junker.” He said, “This house is so far gone, it is hardly even worth fooling with.” His way of thinking was there are so many fabulous old houses in St. Louis XE \"St. Louis\" , and this house is just falling apart with the roof XE \"roof\"  gone and the plaster XE \"plaster\"  is falling out upstairs, and it is musty and dirty, and nobody has been in it for 5 years, and blah, blah, blah. Shortly after that he put his house on the market for less than half of what Alan eventually paid for this house.\n\nAB:\tHis house was a big stone brick house.\n\nSB:\tRight, it was a fabulous house. I mean—it had a tiffany window—\n\nAB:\t—a tremendous tiffany window—\n\nSB:\t—that probably was worth $50,000. \n\nAB:\tWhen you’re in Houston XE \"Houston\" , you’ve got to work with what you’ve got.\n\nSB:\t This is what we said to Bill. He said, “Why don’t you buy my house? You could have it for half of what they’re asking for that house, and it needed a tremendous amount of work.” Alan said, “Well, Bill, if your house was here in Houston XE \"Houston\" , your house would be worth a million dollars, but your house is in St. Louis XE \"St. Louis\" , where those big old houses are practically a dime a dozen, and nobody even wants them.”\n\nAB:\tHe called me in one month, and he said, “I don’t know what to do.” He said, “I just got my gas XE \"gas\"  bill. It is $2,400.”\n\nSB:\t—during the winter.\n\nAB:\tIt was one of those terrible winters.\n\nI:\tGees.\n\nAB:\tThere again, his house has only steam heat, and it was piped all over the house. If you wanted to heat one bedroom or something, you had to heat the whole house. That is a real problem. It is very discouraging. You just think sometimes—I mean—one time there was an article—it was either in the Chronicle XE \"Chronicle\"  or the Post—about the Heights XE \"Heights\" . This woman called me and started asking me questions. I was in a depressed state about something, and so we were discussing it, and she just fed on this little bit of discouragement that I had, and just blew it into a—\n\nF: \tYeah, I saw that.\n\nAB:\tI guess I gave her that impression. I really didn’t mean to, but I just guess that I did, because it can be very discouraging, and you can think, “There is just no end to this, and it is never going to get done.” You just—\n\nSB:\tAlthough, the glimmer of hope is—you get some little project XE \"project\"  finished and it’s just an elation. It is a real shot in the arm, and you want to do some more. \n\nAB:\t(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=11729.0,12141.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") Our main problem is we just haven’t had the money to pour into it, but we still have to do our business—take care of our business, in order just to pay bills. Then nothing gets done. The money goes out to pay bills, and the house doesn’t get restored. It is a very discouraging thing. I would say anybody who is considering this sort of thing to really think about it very carefully, unless they have some money, because it is a—and you have to pay a lot for a place to start with, and you have this restoration XE \"restoration\" . I mean—I can see where, if you aren’t familiar with working with old things, it could actually destroy your life or destroy your—\n\nSB:\tAnother thing is, if you cannot do the restoration XE \"restoration\"  in its entirety before you move in, it is extremely discouraging to live in it—\n\nAB:\tI’m going to take you all upstairs as soon as we’re done, and you can see what just taking the baseboards off has entailed. You just won’t believe what the mess that that has caused—just to move everything to the middle of the room. Then you have to shuffle it somewhere else and shuffle it back. It’s just horrible. \n\nSB:\tI think you can generally say that redoing an old house is twice as much work as starting from scratch—\n\nAB:\tAbsolutely.\n\nSB:\t—and doing a new house from the ground up. In most cases, you have to undo things that are already done before you can even start over and do things again. \n\nI:\tOf course, for various reasons we know that many of the times that restoration XE \"restoration\"  jobs are taken on by individuals, it is done by middleclass people. \n\nSB:\tRight.\n\nI:\tOkay, what is the general advice both of you would have for the middleclass person? Okay, we’ve got to assume that they don’t have that kind of big money that we would all like to have—but okay, what general advice?\n\nAB:\tFirst, they have to get themselves in the right frame of mind. It is not going to happen fast, but they can’t be discouraged.\n\nSB:\tIf they’re not handy about doing a lot of things themselves, I would discourage them from attempting it. If they don’t have enough money to have someone else do it, and they can’t do it themselves, I would discourage them from doing it at all.\n\nAB: \tOne of the really terrible things that happens in a case like that is people will get a house, and they will not do it properly. They will do something really badly and destroy some part of the house—ether the interior XE \"interior\"  or the exterior XE \"exterior\" —because they really don’t have enough money to do it right or enough patience to wait until they have the money to do it. There have been a lot of places just ruined.\n\nSB:\tThey’ve cut corners. We just had to say, “Well, we don’t have enough money to do this now. We will just have to wait until—”\n\nAB:\tUntil we have enough to do it right. \n\nSB:\t—something happens, and we can do it. \n\nI: \tI have no further questions. Debra, do you have any more? We have plenty to work with now—I can tell you—but we are going to be coming back with you with the transcript for you all to go back over. Thanks very much, guys. \n\n[OH373_04 ends] (","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=12141.0,12351.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") \n\n[Audio ends] (2:","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=12351.0,14521.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179/transcript/64777/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") \n\n\n\nTranscribed by ADEPT WORD MANAGEMENT – The Transcription Experts\nAugust 8, 2011","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/216179#t=14521.0,1925.12"}]}]},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/227440","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 2 of 4 - OH0373-03AlanBies-SteveBoehck.mp3"]},"duration":1924.872,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/227/440/small/JIBcard-007.jpg?1707425253","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/227440/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/227440/content/2/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-houstonlibrary.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/227/440/original/OH0373-03AlanBies-SteveBoehck.mp3?1707425185","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":1924.872,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/227440","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[]},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/227441","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 3 of 4 - OH0373-04AlanBies-SteveBoehck.mp3"]},"duration":1923.432,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/227/441/small/JIBcard-007.jpg?1707425270","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/227441/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/227441/content/3/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-houstonlibrary.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/227/441/original/OH0373-04AlanBies-SteveBoehck.mp3?1707425214","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":1923.432,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/227441","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[]},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/227442","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 4 of 4 - OH0373-AlanBies-SteveBoehck.mp3"]},"duration":1551.576,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/227/442/small/JIBcard-007.jpg?1707425280","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/227442/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/227442/content/4/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-houstonlibrary.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/227/442/original/OH0373-AlanBies-SteveBoehck.mp3?1707425226","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":1551.576,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2509/collection_resources/113304/file/227442","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[]}]}