{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/fj2988403x/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Kothari, Atul [and] Rita"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/252/original/HPL_ArchiveBannerCDM2.jpg?1738348845","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["Foundation for Indian Studies"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://rightsstatements.org/page/CNE/1.0/?language=en\"\u003eCopyright Not Evaluated \u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003ePermission to publish or reproduce must be obtained from the Foundation for India Studies, Houston, Texas.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["Houston Public Library Special Collections"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Atul Kothari and Rita Kothari (interviewee)","Krishna Vavilala (interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2015-05-02 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["eng (primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["Atul and Rita Kothari interviewed about culture, family, and educational background, as well as migration, contributions to the community, and work experiences."]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["digital recording, sound"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject"]},"value":{"en":["Houston (Tex.) (geographic term)","Oral histories (topical term)","Immigrants (topical term)","Community development (topical term)","Emigration and immigration (topical term)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Keyword"]},"value":{"en":["indoamerican"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Moving Image"]}}],"summary":{"en":["Atul and Rita Kothari interviewed about culture, family, and educational background, as well as migration, contributions to the community, and work experiences."]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://rightsstatements.org/page/CNE/1.0/?language=en\"\u003eCopyright Not Evaluated \u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003ePermission to publish or reproduce must be obtained from the Foundation for India Studies, Houston, Texas.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Houston Public Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Houston Public Library"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/252/original/HPL_ArchiveBannerCDM2.jpg?1738348845","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/210/359/small/open-uri20231027-1243258-wodw92_1698433164.jpg?1698418765","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - FIS-OH0036.mp4"]},"duration":3304.64,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/210/359/small/open-uri20231027-1243258-wodw92_1698433164.jpg?1698418765","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-houstonlibrary.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/210/359/original/FIS-OH0036.mp4?1698418756","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":3304.64,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359/transcript/60433","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359/transcript/60433/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":")\nKV: That is stepping stone.\n\nAK: That is the stepping stone. So when I finished my Bachelor's I had applied to various universities in United States and fortunately I got admitted to Polytechnic Institute of New York, that's what it used to be called at that point in time. Now it is called New York University. And I came there, I did my Masters in Chemical Engineering, and then like most of the Indians, apply, apply, apply but no reply and so I am thinking what to do.\n\nSo some of my friends from back home in IIT Kanpur they were doing their Masters here in the City of Houston, said come on over and try over here and see if you get a job, and I said, okay, I came down here and I still remember leaving New York, John F. Kennedy Airport, I mean fully blighted in the night and glowing with lights and everything and then --\n\nKV: Which year was that?\n\nAK: This was in 1975 December.\n\nKV: Okay.\n\nAK: And then the pilot announced we are about to land in Houston, I looked down, there are no lights. I can't see it was so dark, pitch dark because airport at the time, now of course the Houston","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359#t=303.0,381.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359/transcript/60433/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"around airport, but at the time that was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359#t=381.0,386.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359/transcript/60433/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and I said where do I got to but it was great that I came down here and I have loved it ever since, and I love the weather, I know it's hot and humid. \n\nKV: Yes.\n\nAK: But I take that any day for the cold and wintery and snowy and other kinds of weathers and then go for this. So that's in a nutshell is my background coming from India and if I have to tell something about my family, I was the youngest in the family of five brothers and two sisters and there was all plus and minuses as you know being the youngest so – but it worked out and came over since then. \n\nKV: Wonderful! So was your transition to America smooth?\n\nAK: Yeah, it was relatively smooth because when I landed in New York my elder brother was there already in New York, so it wasn't too bad. But I had a lot of things we got in the South that you know the Texas getting the big hats and the guns and everything and so -- but I had -- overall it proved a different experience. I found that people in Texas to be very hospitable. There are issues just like any other place, enforcement officials are different from the regular folks and so on and so forth but other than that I didn't feel anything different.\n\nOne thing you find different also is being a vegetarian whenever you go for example job interviews or something, the guy is looking at you what’s wrong with you, only thing you are eating is salad, and how would this guy fit into my organization if he is not eating barbeque like most Texans do. So but, no, that's part of the life. I mean I am sure back home when we looked at different people of different religions, and color and race, and I, our next door neighbor was from South India and he would wear that lungi and say, what's wrong with him. So other than that, I mean I personally haven't come across.\n\nKV: No problem.\n\nAK: Any kind of major issues of discrimination or being treated differently or anything like that. If anything I found the people to be very nice, very hospitable, very friendly. They are outgoing, they want to learn. I am sure there are cases where they don't, but the experience I have had having that that people have been open minded, really kind of who you are, what you are, what you do, how do you do and so on and so forth.\n\nAnd since you mentioned Mahatma Gandhi, I mean as of Indo-American, I mean Indian background, a large more people not only in the United States but all over the world because of him hold us in a very high regard and respect us.\n\nKV: Okay. Now, Ritaji, tell me something about your background in India, how you got married to Atul and was it an arranged marriage and tell me something about your family, your children, where you were born, that's it.\n\n(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359#t=386.0,595.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359/transcript/60433/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":")\nRK: I was born in Mumbai in 1955 and went to school and did my B.Com. from H.R. College of commerce over there. Then I did my Law School at Government Law. 1977. Our marriage was arranged and I got married and came to Houston at that point in time. My dad is a doctor and my mother was housewife, yeah. We are three sisters and one brother, and in Houston, I came to Houston in 1977. We have one son, his name is Vivek.\n\nKV: Born in this country, in Houston.\n\nRK: Born in Houston, and he graduated from Brown with Public Policy and Computer Science Major and did his Law School at Stanford and he is now a Federal Prosecutor in Atlanta, Georgia.\n\nKV: Oh! Great. He accomplished, and also you are an empty nester now?\n\nRK: We are empty nesters. He got married about two years ago.\n\nKV: Okay, have grandkids?\n\nRK: No grandkids.\n\nAK: Not just yet, waiting. --\nKV: Wonderful! So you were also actively involved in the community along with of course Atul don’t leave you otherwise.\n\nAK: She had no choice.\n\nKV: So tell me how are -- I know that by profession I see your ads in the paper that you are a CPA, and I had earlier say that you went to Kanpur IIT, you are a B. Tech person, right, and engineer, from engineering you transitioned to accountancy. When did it happen? \n\nAK: Yeah what happened was to come here to study engineering everybody had to take the GRE examination. For some reason, I don't know for some strange reason I had interest on the business side of the industry as well. \n\nSo at the time to study in MBA program, one had to sit for what is called ATGSB which is now called GMAT. So I have taken the GRE and ATGSB at the same time. So through GRE I got admission in the Masters program in New York, and then when I came to Houston, see the exam that you take is valid for two years. So the two year, now it is expiring up, I have to do my MBA. So I went to University of Houston, gave my ATGSB score, I got admitted and everything. And what happens is during the first Semester we are supposed to take one course in every different discipline such as accounting, statistics, finance, marketing, organizational behavior, management and so on and so forth.\n\nAnd I loved the finance and accounting courses, especially in accounting I was taking accounting course for the first time in my life at a graduate level, and my fellow students already had Bachelors in accounting, they was working as accountant somewhere else and I used to sit there in class and say, why do they teach this. I mean it is so obvious there is no need to teach this. And I matched all the exams and I have got straight As and so on and so forth.\n\nSo at the end of the first semester we had to decide which area do you want to specialize it in. So based on my engineering background obvious choice would have been what it used to be called Quantitative Management or industrial engineering is what it is called right now.\n\nFor some strange reason some thought came to my mind, that since I love these other courses why not I go to the career placement center and see if they can help me make a decision. So I go there and say well, listen, we can't give any particular advice like this whatever, but we have comparable aptitude tests you can take and see where your interest lie.\n\nSo I took those tests, the results came back. The first test was, I was, the top interest was being in law and second was CPA. The second test came back and it said number one CPA and number two attorney. So I was not prepared to spend another three years going to law school. So I decided to focus into accounting and that's how I then passed my CPA exam, also I finished my MBA. And that's, that's my first job was into corporate planning also, and that's why I just stayed there and I have thoroughly enjoyed every moment of it.\n(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359#t=595.0,896.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359/transcript/60433/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":")\nI am glad I made the switch. I know it sound strange having spoiled a seat for an institution like IIT and then moving on to the CPA, but unfortunately that was not under my control. I loved the topic. I still enjoy going to --.\n\nKV: And you’ve become successful in your profession in Houston.\n\nAK: Right.\n\nKV: You’re one of the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359#t=896.0,919.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359/transcript/60433/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CPA.\n\nAK: Well, coming from Indian background you’re bound for success.\n\nKV: Exactly! And you Indians cannot fail, they are good. I have come across engineering school and into medicine also and they’re successful doctors and then your transition paid off very well, so wonderful. And you’re also I know that since I know you for so many years one day I met you, you said you’re leaving Houston and going back to India for good that really surprised me and I even persuaded you I said, Atul people whom I know they went and came back and you proved me right, tell me what happened, how did it happen?\n\nAK: Well, it’s the itch you could call. There is something in your mind you got to check it out and you’re absolute right the odds were heavily against it, okay there is no doubt about it, but you simply can’t look at odds, you just have to go and try it yourself, okay, because each case and circumstances different what happen why and so on and so forth, so we went down there. I mean, it was quite a transition especially for Rita she had to leave the job and everything and --\n\nKV: 23 years at Exxon, right?\nRK: Exxon.\n\nKV: To go back to India from that, you know, it’s a bit shock.\n\nRK: Especially Ahmedabad because I was --\n\nAK: Raised in Mumbai and she knew nobody in Ahmedabad.\n\nRK: I was raised in Mumbai. So I didn’t know anything about Ahmedabad.\n\nKV: And how long you tried India.\n\nAK: We’re almost there for three years, almost three years.\n\nKV: Three years. That is a good time, you make it or break it. So finally you decided to come back here.\n\nAK: Yeah, because the plans I had in mind to do","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359#t=919.0,1043.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359/transcript/60433/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to Mahatma Gandhi this was a very cold reception and then I mean, I have got a struggled and kept doing it, but than I said rather than just sitting around not doing anything why not go back to Houston where such activities are already been started and they were still ongoing and we continue with that effort rather than trying to start something from scratch over there, so that was the main reason we came back.\n\nKV: Let me tell you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359#t=1043.0,1074.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359/transcript/60433/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"during that time.\n\nAK: The important point that I wanted to prove you right and many others and many others.\n\nKV: And I was surprised when you came back and you exactly you’re right, you know, I’ve experienced that myself. I went England and went India and then finally after six years I trying and then I decided I am not leaving again, you know that is my history, but your story is also fascinating because you’re successful in this country and you wanted to go back and start all over again in India and that’s --\n\nAK: Well it’s a fairly simple philosophy, I mean, at least from my perspective every person has three mothers, okay. One is the mom who gives the birth and for whom people sacrifice their lives and take care of her and so on and so forth, other one is the land on which you’re born which is called motherland for which also people are prepared to give their lives.\n\nKV: Mathrubhumi.\n\nAK: Mathrubhumi, okay. And the third one is the as I look at it the mother tongue which many people don’t realize and in fact I was really surprised to know when I was back home, you know, during the period when I was trying to resettle back home in Ahmedabad, I met some, there was some celebration of Bangladesh’s Independence anniversary and for some reason Gujarati kavi sammelan or somebody they also were observing it and I asked them why, I mean, it’s a different country and why you’re observing it? As it turns out, okay, that one of the major factors after Bangladesh’s freedom struggle from Pakistan was the language.\n(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359#t=1074.0,1193.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359/transcript/60433/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":")\nThey were being force to do everything in Urdu whereas their mother tongue was Bengali and that’s what they didn’t like and that’s was one of the major factors beside many others why Bangladesh wanted freedom from Pakistan. And that’s the only country that I know of has for their struggle for independence based on love for their mother tongue. So when you look at these three things, I mean, I have gained a lot from my motherland, my education, the reason why I came here, everything was because of that, because both my educations at the Sainik School and at IIT were pretty much free, it was all paid by the government. So I had a debt to pay, repay.\n\nKV: Oh yeah.\n\nAK: More than anything else which I still have not been able to repay.\n\nKV: Okay. It’s very true. Now this integration into the mainstream America, tell me something about it, your activities and your contribution to this country, socially, economically, politically, anything, you are involved in many mainstream organizations in this country, in Houston.\n\nAK: Yeah, just to give you a background, I was very fortunate that when I was doing my MBA I had some fellow students who were not Indians or of some other country, and I formed very good friendships with many of them and one of them was instrumental in getting my first job, a girl by the name","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359#t=1193.0,1313.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359/transcript/60433/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":", she was from Luxembourg and she referred me to what then used to be called Coastal Corporation which is now called I think El Paso Engineering Company and I was very fortunate that the first job I got also my boss was from Kansas, he had moved to Houston, and there was not a trace by him that Atul is from a different country and his accent is different or whatever that he should have been – he was like a friend to me, and in fact I still remember we both sat for the CPA exam and at that time we had to go to Galveston because there was no center in Houston at the time and so we drove down there, we took the exam together and I still remember the day the results were out, because very few people passed CPA exam on the first attempt at that time because we had to take all parts together, it’s a different story.\n\nSo Jim went – his home was very close from the office, so he went for lunch and he came back and said, Atul, I didn’t make it. I said, uh oh, because I knew the results were waiting for me in the mailbox when I reach home, and I still remember reaching home and Rita looked at me and I said Rita you open that mail, I am not going to open the envelope and fortunately I did pass and I was promoted in the company and so on and so forth.\n\nSo I didn’t have as I mentioned earlier, I didn’t have much difficulty if any in terms of integrating into the society and of course still in terms of socially or whatever I don’t have too many friends in terms of the foreign background or different culture.. I know them, probably we don’t meet with them on a weekend, for a party or anything like that because most of them either moved out of Houston and so on and so forth but in the sense of overall fitting into the society, it’s not just a question of making friends. The way the society works. So for example in India we try to cut every possible corner because things are scarce and that’s what is inculcated into every child. That was with us also but we have slowly learned to let go a little bit, the principle is not wrong, the question is how far you carry, is the issue. So that way of integration into society takes a little time because you have grown up within a certain way and fashion and now you see plethora of choices and resources and so on and so forth, but thank our parents and our past relations and our ancient -- that they have inculcated these values into us.\n\n(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359#t=1313.0,1497.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359/transcript/60433/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":")\n\nAnd we should be careful in terms of how we integrate into the society, just don’t adopt everything. Now, of course there are good things, like people here are always on time. There is no IST, no Indian Standard Time, now it’s the right time, this is the time you start, this is the time you are supposed to do that, yes, that is something should be adopted, there’s nothing wrong with it.\n\nOther thing you feel here, see here, at a low level especially, there is little or no corruption, all right? So therefore if you are ever in a position where you are compromising ask yourself, should you do it, shouldn’t you learn that from your society where it is not? Just because we come back from back home, it is very prevalent, it was then, it is now and so on and so forth. So the question is, what am I doing to change myself for good in that sense?\n\nSo that is a kind of integration I am looking at. I am not looking at simply because they are drinking I drink, or they are -- no, there are values we have, which are excellent, and we should never give up any under any and all circumstances. But there are things for improvement in everybody, so look for those and ask yourself every night, how much have I made a progress in that direction.\n\nSo in that sense I believe we have integrated very well into the society here in terms of adopting what is good here and holding on to what we believe is good from back home and from our ancient culture.\n\nKV: Do you have any concerns about the second generation Indian boys and girls becoming Americanized very fast and forgetting their roots?\n\nRK: Probably won’t forget the roots; it’s deep inside of you, but since they are born here and brought up here, they are exposed to more of the American culture and way of life.\n\nKV: But you have no concerns about that?\n\nRK: Well, it’s like not that much, but a little bit, for sure, but I am sure the second, third generation will lose a lot more than the first generation. \n\nAK: Let’s talk about what does Americanization mean? If Americanization means that they are not going to be spendthrift, yes, it would concern me. If Americanization means, which is happening to a lot of children, they eat meat, fish and so on and so forth, yes, that is concerning to me, okay?\n\nIf it means on the other hand to be truthful, then it doesn’t bother me, that is good, there is nothing wrong, whether you call it Americanization or whatever you want to call, that is something excellent, okay, to be bold, to take on challenges.\n\nI mean, when you look at our children, if we compare to the lives we had compared to the lives they have over here, it is a night and day difference. We were very protected. We had very limited exposure to rest of the world, so in that sense -- but that is pluses and minuses. Exposure also could mean they could be misled and therefore the protection is needed. So there is no right balance anywhere. \n\nBut whatever it is, these are the facts. They have been born here. This is their motherland now, just like we were born back home, that is our motherland, but their motherland is now America and they are supposed to serve them.\n\nBut it’s an interesting question that you ask, because I had grappled with that question of myself, and that was one of the genesis for forming the Mahatma Gandhi Library, that what will happen is they are going to be Americanized, there is no one I believe can do anything about it, no matter how hard you try, because that’s what they are exposed to.\n\nSo the language they may speak may not be our mother tongue. The clothes that they wear may not be the clothes we wore back home. They may not act the way we did. They may not touch your feet or anything, that’s a different story. However, as Rita said earlier, deep-rooted, which I interpret as their genes cannot be changed. Since the genes cannot be changed, their perspective on life and in general cannot be changed.\n\nSo we have seen here that political scene, that is so-called right and the left, there is nothing in between and it has been existing for quite a while now. I mean, there is no compromise that we need to do something different, that maybe other parties will withdraw, let’s look at whether I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359#t=1497.0,1805.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359/transcript/60433/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that. Each one is taking their polar position, I am right and you are wrong. The other party is saying, I am right and you are wrong.\n\n(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359#t=1805.0,1814.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359/transcript/60433/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":")\n\nThis is where I believe our generation, our Indo-American next generation, is going to be asking itself, where do I fit? Where do I belong? Where do I go for guidance, because my feelings are something different from what intellectually I am being told, and this dilemma, if they study someone like Mahatma Gandhi, it will help them settle that dilemma.\n\nThat was one of the main reasons behind forming -- but -- of course it has evolved a lot more since then. It is not just the Indo-American children benefiting from it, it is any child is going to benefit tremendously because his philosophy is so simple; we will get into that later on if you need to, but in terms of Americanization, yes, there is nothing --\n\nOkay, let’s not cover this, our parents used to go to temple on a daily basis, they used to do the fast, do we do that? No. They were worried about us. As to, what is going to happen to these guys, they are totally non-religious people? We think things have turned out okay, maybe they may not approve is a different story. \n\nSo this is every generation is worried about the next generation in one way or the other, either in the form of religion, in terms of culture, in terms of different ways, but we have seen over thousands of years, it is not a matter of today.\n\nAnd if I may relate one incident, at one time I had to travel from US to UK to Greece, then back to UK then back to India. I picked a ‘Wall Street Journal’ here in the United States while leaving here, guess what the editorial was about, oh, religion, our children are not religious, they have given up religion and so on and so forth.\n\nI go to UK, and I read I don’t believe if I remember this correct, I don’t know the newspaper right now, but it was same issue, our children are not -- they are leaving Christianity and this and that and whatever.\n\nI end up in India and read ‘Times of India’, exactly the same thing, oh my God, our children are no more religious, I mean look, there used to be arranged marriages, now they have love marriages and all sorts of things, drug use, they have gone into all sorts of issues.\n\nSo of course always we now have experience, they don’t. So we think we have the crystal ball to look at it and tell them, but no, they should be given the freedom to explore, sometimes they will get hurt, but that’s part of growing up, let them hurt.\n\nBut the genes cannot change and therefore their perspective in general, there will be of course the distribution of any thinking, like in Battlecomp, some will be in extreme, most of them in the middle, and so on and so forth, but that will not change. And the idea is to give them a solace that although you hear so much in the media and so on and so forth, war and this and that, if you are thinking it different, don’t be afraid, there is nothing wrong with being different.\n\nAnd that’s what we should support them with more than anything else, rather than taking them to the task as to why are you Americanized? Why can’t you be like us?\n\nKV: So you really are not concerned about them being American-Born Confused Desis? Are they not confused between the two cultures?\n\nAK: No, there will always be some people, there is no doubt it, it is going to happen, but that’s expected. It is not something -- and every parent tries to do his or her very best and you just have to -- whatever the outcome is, you have to accept it rather than regret that I didn’t do a good job or this I should have done differently. Hey, you did the best based on the information you were at that time. If you didn’t, then it’s a different story. Next time do it, okay? But regretting about it is not going to -- now, if you have made some errors, correct that, that’s fine, and then go from there.\n\nKV: Now, talk about your project which you started, you were the main person who started this Mahatma Gandhi Library in Houston, talk about it in their layman stages and now where we are?\n\n(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359#t=1814.0,2098.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359/transcript/60433/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":")\nAK: I mean see, all of us who come from back home, at one point in time or other the following part passes through our mind, that at one time, Bharat (India) was the center of the world, people used to come to us to gain knowledge, to gain love and so on and so forth and why all of a sudden the river has started flowing in the opposite direction? What happened? Why? So the answer that I had was for many years was that science and technology is a branch primary","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359#t=2098.0,2137.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359/transcript/60433/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"by the western civilization and we were into God and doing this thing, worshipping and we got left behind and in this world people moved forward. Then one day all of a sudden a thought came to me. What is science and technology? Science and technology is nothing else but relentless pursuit of physical truth. So for example, Niels Bohr says atom consists of electron, neutron and proton, and somebody else comes in and proves that there are quartz, sub-quartz and so on and so forth. No matter how well respected Niels Bohr maybe, the new truth is accepted and they move on. So I said if it is just a matter of truth then who do I know champion of truth and then all of a sudden it hit me, Mahatma Gandhi. I was born in the town that he was born, I was raised in the town and I remember for one year that I went to school in the city, from the suburb where I was living, everyday the conductor will stop and the Gandhi Ashram used to be on the way, Gandhi Ashram, when I look around, I say, oh okay, yeah, he got us independence and literally know nothing about it.\n\nSo that was the first time I went out to into the library, got his autobiography, read his autobiography, and it went straight to my heart, I mean I can’t tell you anything, I am a very poor reader and this is one of the books which I picked up and never left off until I finished. Why? The reason behind that is, if you have a chance read his autobiography, especially the first three pages of the introduction, and this is where he talks about as to “I have been looking for him”, by “looking for him” he means that absolute truth. “I haven’t founded yet”, he says. And then he goes into say, “While I am looking for it, “I must live by relative truth”, what is relative truth? Relative truth is truth as every individual conceives; every person’s truth is different, okay. But I must be prepared to give my life for it.\n\nSo now let’s take logically further. If I admit, I don’t know the absolute truth, okay, I may disagree with your belief system, but I have to respect it because I have admitted I don’t know the absolute truth, maybe you know something that I don’t understand right now, maybe I will understand later on but I cannot say, hey, you are truly wrong and I am right, you’ve got to respect really what I am saying. So now that is tolerance, that you respect other person’s belief.\n\nNow let’s take one step further, it’s just a matter of time, before which we will come across somebody whose belief system is dramatically opposite from ours. And this is defined as conflict. This is where he swept me off my feet. He said, if there is a conflict and if you are truly interested in changing the belief of the other person, or other party or other nation whatever you want to call them, that is one and only one way; and what is that way, I must suffer. I said, wait a minute. What is it talking about? I must suffer, and then he demonstrated. So if you look at Salt Satyagraha, if you look at the -- there is an original footage available on that, this was 2000 people, they had no arms in their hands, unfortunately Gandhiji has been arrested to the night before, British thought that the demonstration will fissile, he had already instructed Sarojini Naidu to go and take the lead and carry out the demonstration, what did they had? They had three simple instructions. You will go in team of ten holding hands together, number one. Number two, when you reach out there, you look at your addresser in the eye because you love them, you don’t hate them. Third, you will be hit by a laathi, which is has a razor-sharp steel at the end of it, these can cut up on your skull and spine, but take the blow like you meant, don’t even flinch. Ten people go out there, they get hurt, nurses come and take them, it goes all day long.\n\n(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359#t=2137.0,2400.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359/transcript/60433/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":")\n\nThere was a UPI reporter there at that time whose dispatch went to 2200 newspapers around the world. It was a very long dispatch in describing the day’s event. The critical sentence was the last sentence and this is what he said: “The West has lost any moral authority to rule anyone in the world today.” Because when British citizen read this report, they asked themselves the following questions: Are we barbarians? All this people wanted salt, they don’t mean to harm or hurt you, and this is how we treat them?\n\nSo the stench of violence is such that it changes that person, and since then Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. implied exactly the same strategy for here for the African-American. The dogs were thrown at them, they were bombed, they were jailed. They suffered through everything, but through their suffering they changed the minds of the majority and that’s why 65 Legislation of the Civil Rights could be passed because there were enough votes for that and all this may sound theoretical that only great people can do.\n\nLet me ask you this question, Krishna, does every mother in the world suffer? Not only question of carrying the child and delivering, raising the child. What happens in case of stress, where does the child go? The child would run to the mother, because the child knows no matter what he or she has done, only thing the child can expect from mother is love.\n\nKV: Yeah, unconditional.\n\nAK: Unconditional love. No matter what you do, you are right, okay. So that’s why we got started into this.\n\nKV: Very good, and it is a very successful project as you were mentioning earlier, outside this interview that Mahatma Gandhi Library is buying land.\n\nAK: That in fact is a coincidence, you won’t believe it, in fact we are planning to close on the land this Thursday and our focus has been primarily children because we adults are gone cases. Our character was made when we were 10 or 12 years old, no matter what you do is not going to change, but we are hopeful with the next generation. So the idea is to ping them once a year through speech contest, essay contest, poster contest, multimedia contest, to ping them once a year with leaders of peace like Mahatma Gandhi, Dr. King, Nelson Mandela, and there are many others around the world who all have credited Gandhiji with pioneering this technique.\n\nKV: And how big is this facility going to be?\n\nAK: We are planning to build a 5000 square feet building for the Gandhi Library and we have a lot of dreams, we will see how things come true.\n\nKV: Firstly, it all starts with a vision and then the mission.\n\nAK: Right.\n\nKV: I am glad. Which area you have --\n\nAK: Okay, this is almost in Sugar Land, so those of you who are familiar with Sugar Land there is Dulles High School on the Dulles Avenue. It is almost across the street from there on the Stafford side of the road. It is going to be 1.2 acre piece of a land.\n\nKV: What is the budget, big?\n\nAK: Oh well, budget, we don’t know right now for sure because one of the -- there are many objectives we have in mind for the building, but one of the major objectives is to pay tribute to Mahatma Gandhi. We want to make sure that the building is LEED-certified, which is built on green technologies such as the solar power, wind power, water harvesting, insulation, cross-ventilation and so on and so forth. Such that it utilizes very little energy so that when children come that building itself is a lesson in terms of cutting down your consumption, sustainability and so on and so forth besides learning anything else about Mahatma Gandhi Library.\n\nSo it has ranged anywhere from about $150 per sq. foot to $200 per sq. foot so that will be somewhere around a million dollars as well. We are looking at it. So, Krishna, please with all your resources and by tomorrow we should have the money in the bank, okay?\n\nKV: This is sponsored, the main sponsor is the Gandhi Library or --\n\nAK: Yes.\n\nKV: You have joint hands with other groups?\n\nAK: No, we will slowly start once we acquire the land. We are right now in the process of selecting the architect, so once the architect is selected we have the drawings and renderings so we can present to the potential donors, because they like to see something more complete rather than just a concept.\n\n(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359#t=2400.0,2701.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359/transcript/60433/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":")\n\nKV: Sure! I keep reading in the papers that Gandhiji was a -- he is a global person obviously, he has been","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359#t=2701.0,2708.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359/transcript/60433/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"by so many other countries, including, recently they installed a big statue in UK in London.\n\nAK: Parliament House.\n\nKV: But what I keep hearing is that in India somehow Gandhi’s image and respect for Gandhiji is slowly diminishing for some reason or other. It became political and that is what the general impression is. Here Gandhiji is not as much respected as outside the country. What do you say for that?\n\nAK: Well, in Gujarati we have a saying, dungar dur thi raliyana, which means the hill looks beautiful from the far. So when you go close that’s when you find the shrubs and all sorts of flowers on the garden, in the hill, that is not as pretty, it is a little difficult task, okay. So what has happened with our Motherland, Bharat (India) is the following: It is tremendously productive in terms of producing individuals who impact the world.\n\nSo let’s talk about for example, Gautam Buddha. Rest of the world respects him, there are lot of countries, in fact Buddhist countries, but Buddha itself hasn’t found that kind of grounding or following in our own country. Because the Hindu religion based on what little I know, I know very less, I just want that every viewer to know I know little or nothing, this is just my perception. It’s so deep rooted, and it is so philosophically strong that for some new philosophy to take root in that is almost impossible.\n\nNow let’s look at Gandhiji’s situation, in my humble opinion what he has done that he has taken absolute essence, absolute essence of the Hinduism and gone down to two principles, which is, practice your own truth while being nonviolent.\n\nThe problem is, lot of people are misguided. They feel in order for them to practice their own truth they must use violence, and this is the interesting point that back home in spite of the very rich heritage we have of the Shastras and Puranas and so on and so forth, this one simple principle of nonviolence is very difficult for people to adopt, and that is the reason the Gandhian philosophy is going to take some time, but ultimately, again remember, ‘Satyamev Jayate’, truth will prevail.\n\nSo there are always ups and downs. This may be a down period, but as Gandhiji himself has said, the truth is such that it will speak even from my graveyard. Nobody can stop the truth and the truth remains and that’s what Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., who studied at Gandhi Ashram has said, Gandhiji is inescapable, it is not a question of should, must or what. In order for the world to live a peaceful, quiet life that principle, simple two principles, practice your own truth while being nonviolent is inescapable. So it is just a matter of time before which we will realize back home.\n(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359#t=2708.0,2987.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359/transcript/60433/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":")\nNow, let’s go to third issue, because you and I like Gandhi, we tend to think other people, we don’t know that, nobody has taken a survey, there are no hard facts just because the so-called right-wing politics have risen it doesn’t mean the Gandhian philosophy is dead, so that we should not jump to conclusion without having objective facts as to what is happening because Gandhians typically are going to remain silent. Gandhi was very good with media, he knew how to get his message out, but most peace leaders, peace lovers they do not know how to do that. So it’s a – and a quote again from Gandhi, somebody told him, Gandhi, what are you talking about this non-violence. Tell me in history has anybody gained independence through non-violence? You know, guess what was his reply? He says, “Why are you studying history? History is made of isolated incidents. So for example in Houston we have Hurricanes that come. So we all remember, do you know this Hurricane and stuff, we forget that out of the 365 days Hurricanes come may be once every ten years or five years, but we talk, oh, Houston is Hurricane prone. Don’t go there. We forget the rest of Gandhi’s -- the ocean is peaceful most of the time, but we talk about the events which is not what is generally followed in the world; so peaceful existence is far more existent -- prevalent than the non-peaceful.\n\nKV: We only have a few more minutes. Just I want to ask you what are the issues that confront the Houston Indian Community as you perceive?\n\nAK: The only issue I think Indo-American Community in Houston faces is to realize how blessed they are and they should figure out any number of ways to share this blessedness with those in Houston who are not fortunate enough to be so blessed. We are blessed in the sense that typically whoever is good at math is going to be economically well just because that’s what God gave them the genes to do that other people don’t have that. So the question is what we as Indian community have done for those who are less blessed to help them out in whichever way we can because if you don’t I don’t think anything is going to happen but typically we will be looked as a community who doesn’t know how to take care of the community at large. We may donate large sums to political movements and so on and so forth, some of our people have risen politically and so on and so forth, but until we show that we understand the problems of an average person and we put our mindset, tan, man and dhan which is our body, physical labor or brains and the so-called wealth that is accumulating our names for the benefit of the others, until we do that I would not call that we have reached a true success. Yes, economically we have succeeded, academically we have succeeded, but we have to show the other side of ours --\n\nKV: Absolutely.\n\nAK: -- that we still haven’t done as much.\n\nKV: I fully agree with you. That the great message. The community has to come out and share their successes, there is still the have-nots and not so fortunate ones in the mainstream, and I am sure it will show there are already organizations who are trying to do that and we also notice that our second generation people are, they are not solely dependent on the parents and they are on their own merit they are doing great.\n\nAK: Very, very great and there is a lot of public work and hats off on that.\n\nKV: Yes.\n\nAK: Absolutely.\n\nKV: With that the closing sentence, I guess you have given a great interview and we are thankful to you to Ritaji and on behalf of The Foundation for India Studies we thank you very much.\n\nAK: And Krishna, I just want to say thank you on behalf of us for inviting us for this interview and we wish Foundation for India Studies all the very best and all the success. Thank you!\n\nKV: You are welcome! Thank you!","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108914/file/210359#t=2987.0,3304.64"}]}]}]}