{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/445h990r1s/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Mathur, Viren and Nalini Mathur"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/252/original/HPL_ArchiveBannerCDM2.jpg?1738348845","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["Foundation for Indian Studies"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://rightsstatements.org/page/CNE/1.0/?language=en\"\u003eCopyright Not Evaluated \u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003ePermission to publish or reproduce must be obtained from the Foundation for India Studies, Houston, Texas.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["Houston Public Library Special Collections"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Mathur, Viren ;  Mathur, Nalini (interviewee)","Mutyala, Sita (interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2014-07-18 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["eng (primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["Viren and Nalini Mathur interviewed about culture, family, and educational background, as well as migration, contributions to the community, and work experiences."]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["digital recording, sound"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject"]},"value":{"en":["Houston (Tex.) (geographic term)","Oral histories (topical term)","Immigrants (topical term)","Community development (topical term)","Emigration and immigration (topical term)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Keyword"]},"value":{"en":["indoamerican"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Moving Image"]}}],"summary":{"en":["Viren and Nalini Mathur interviewed about culture, family, and educational background, as well as migration, contributions to the community, and work experiences."]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://rightsstatements.org/page/CNE/1.0/?language=en\"\u003eCopyright Not Evaluated \u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003ePermission to publish or reproduce must be obtained from the Foundation for India Studies, Houston, Texas.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Houston Public Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Houston Public Library"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/252/original/HPL_ArchiveBannerCDM2.jpg?1738348845","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/210/351/small/open-uri20231027-1243258-mb263v_1698432864.jpg?1698418464","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - FIS-OH0028.mp4"]},"duration":5654.42133,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/210/351/small/open-uri20231027-1243258-mb263v_1698432864.jpg?1698418464","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-houstonlibrary.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/210/351/original/FIS-OH0028.mp4?1698418456","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":5654.42133,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351/transcript/60425","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351/transcript/60425/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":")\nVM: One of the reasons was in order to survive in Delhi at that time, there was only one way and that was to go in private practice because the salary -- All India Institute was at that time and is still is a government institution, so the salary is what government decides the salary should be and we were not allowed private practice.\n\nSM: I see.\n\nVM: So the salary at that time was roughly about 2% of the private practitioner my colleagues were making, so I survived for 4 and-a-half years at 2% of all my colleagues were making -- who were not able to get to All India Institute because this was a very difficult position.\n\nSM: That is true.\n\nVM: So eventually it became, I love teaching and research, so the only way to survive was private practice and in private practice there is no education, no research, no teaching and the reason why I came back was in places like Boston and especially here once I came to Houston, I was able to combine all three.\n\nSM: Oh, excellent!\n\nVM: Teaching, research and patient care.\n\nSM: That’s excellent!\n\nVM: So it forced me, it was painful because professionally I was extremely happy and in New Delhi at that time at AIIMS, I was helping something like 50-60 patients everyday so it was extremely gratifying. And I was very happy with the professional work but it was difficult to survive and especially my friends who were making 50 times more than I was always were teasing me everyday that why are you doing this, who are you trying to show, who are you trying to prove? But I wanted to continue teaching and research and I may add a sentence here, I can call myself almost a born teacher, I have been teaching since the age of 14.\n\nSM: 14!\n\nVM: And at the age of 21 I was officially an instructor. \n\nSM: Oh, you have teaching in your blood.\n\nVM: And I have never stopped that.\n\nSM: Houston is fortunate to get you, to Houston in ’71, so you came in ’71. So how was Houston like, what was your impression and experience when you first came to Houston and did you have any language or cultural barriers?\n\nVM: No, no not language or cultural.\n\nSM: Okay.\n\nVM: But let me before that introduce you to my first introduction to USA.\n\nSM: Okay.\n\nVM: Because that’s very interesting.\n\nSM: Yes, that is interesting, okay.\n\nVM: That was in ’62.\n\nSM: In ’62, yes.\n\nVM: ’62, when I came I had to go to --\n\nNM: I will interrupt; I wasn’t with him at that time --\n\nSM: Oh okay, he was married by himself at that time.\n\nVM: I was not married, I was a bachelor.\n\nSM: Okay.\n\nVM: At that time in ’62, we had made arrangements and first I had to go through a few months of residency program before I could start my fellowship, and the first time we came -- at that time in India we were allowed to only take total of $8.\n\nSM: Yes, I know, I am from --\n\nVM: Only $8, so the only way I could come was a friend of mine lived nearby and he was willing to pick me up from the airport and basically transfer me to the hospital.\n\nSM: Right, right.\n\nVM: So he picked me from the airport and dropped me in the hospital and I still had my $8 with me, but what absolutely amazed me was the difference in the culture and attitude; the very first experience of this country, the Medical Education Director of the hospital, he of course knew that I am coming only with $8. So he provided board and lodging, but he also said, come to my office in the morning. I got the message. I reached there late evening.\n\nSo in the morning I go to his office and the first thing he does was to hand me a check of $250, because he said I know you don’t have any money here and you will need for miscellaneous things, I know you have board and lodging but you still need some money. So this was my advance for one month and I thought what a difference that he doesn’t know me, he has never met me and before I talked to him he hands me over this.\n\n(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351#t=281.0,607.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351/transcript/60425/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":")\nNM: That’s good spirit.\n\nVM: That was the welcome to United States, and it was amazing.\n\nNM: You will never forget that $250.00.\n\nVM: Yes, I’ll never, never forget. My total salary in India at that time was much less than that.\n\nSM: So when were you both married?\n\nNM: We were married in 1966.\n\nSM: Okay, before coming here.\n\nNM: Before –\n\nSM: Coming back here.\n\nNM: No ‘66, he was visiting India. Our families brought us together and we got married, then I came with him.\n\nSM: With him in ‘66.\n\nNM: Like -- honeymoon.\n\nVM: ’66 itself.\n\nSM: ’66.\n\nNM: Yeah, so as his dependent I came, I got to see the country.\n\nSM: Did you come directly to Houston or did you go to Boston?\n\nNM: Houston was our second -- our first stop was Boston. First one was Boston. So we were in Boston, that’s where I came and it was a winter time the site of snow, and all that thing was so beautiful. I fell in love with this country at that time.\n\nSM: How about Houston? What was your impression?\n\nVM: Well, my entry to Houston again is very interesting because the reason we came back to Boston because I didn’t know anybody in Houston. I did know in Boston and my former chief was very kind, he said that you come back and we will arrange something for me and he did arrange so we could survive for a few months, and during that time I was searching which would be the best place, and I did go for different interviews and finally I decided to join Houston because this looked at that time very appealing because of its cardiology thing. So let me tell you something about Houston entry.\n\nThere are two things that impressed me on the very first day. One was which I later on found out how much Houston has expanded between ’71 and today, that was one thing I will tell you why and how, and the second thing was the way people work here in Houston and the attitude and devotion to their responsibilities and work. Let me tell you about the expansion.\n\nWhen I landed here for interview, at that time, one of the doctors was assigned to pick me from the airport and then in the evening entertain me with dinner, et cetera in the introduction. So he picked me out of the hotel right next to medical center, so he picked me from there for the evening and he decided to go to Vargo’s. I don’t know I you know Vargo’s.\n\nSM: Yes, I know Vargo’s with peacocks there?\n\nVM: You are right.\n\nSM: Yes.\n\nVM: So he decided to go to Vargo’s. He had been living in Houston for a number of years but obviously he had never gone to Vargo’s. So we decided, he picked me up and he started driving on Holcombe Boulevard which becomes Bellaire Boulevard. So after we crossed the 16 loop, we went about a mile or two and he said I don’t find the Fondren Road, so he decided to stop at a gas station and said, where is Fondren Road? And the gas station said, just a little more lighter to, and then, so we started driving again, then we reached near Chimney Road, we passed that, then there were a couple of other traffic lights then we reached the Hillcroft. And now there was not much at that time, so it looked like a desert. So he said, I must have missed it. So we stopped at a second gas station and asked where is Fondren Road? He said, you have to go further. So at that time, Fondren Road and Vargo’s were considered to be –\n\nNM: Far off places.\n\nVM: Boondocks.\n\nSM: Boondocks.\n\nVM: Because this gentleman, he was a doctor, living here for a number of years could not believe that Fondren Road is that far at a restaurant. So now Fondren Road is probably way inside the Greater Houston.\n\nNM: Not only Fondren Road, but when we were coming from Boston to Houston a lot of people in North East didn’t know much about Houston, they knew Dallas, so Dallas had become famous because of Kennedy’s assassination, but Houston –\n\n(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351#t=607.0,909.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351/transcript/60425/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":")\nSM: Nobody knows.\n\nNM: And they thought that in Houston, there will be cattle roaming around.\n\nVM: Let me tell you the other thing about introduction to Houston. The same day that we returned from Vargo’s, he had the head of the medicine department, I was of course interviewed for medicine department, Cardiology Bellaire is part of medicine. So he had left a message with this other doctor who was my host that when you finish dinner, come back then call me at this number, he had given his home number. So when I got back in my room, at the hotel I had a message from him that call me at this number also. So I called him, that was close to 10 p.m. So he talked to me, welcomed me and all that, and then said that tomorrow we will start the interview and can you imagine what time he asked me to come?\n\nSM: 8 o’clock.\n\nVM: 6:30.\n\nSM: 6:30?\n\nVM: Right.\n\nSM: That’s dedication.\n\nVM: That is what I meant that the dedication first of all he talked to me at 10 p.m. and then says we will meet at 6:30 and he told me the room. I was so nervous that in morning I may not be able to find that room. So it was not too far from the hospital. So after that I walked through the hospital, looked where his room is; so in the morning I don’t find myself fumbling.\n\nSM: That is again dedication.\n\nVM: So I did reach there at 6:30 and they were about 30 physicians there. Besides the head of the department, there were another 30 members, senior members of the department. So that’s where my interview started and they had a printed schedule for the day, and when we looked over, I had to meet and talk to several people, and there were two 10-minute slots, they call it bathroom break.\n\nSM: Oh, in between, otherwise that’s busy.\n\nVM: Otherwise it was -- every minute was occupied. So I was very impressed with the work ethics of Houston and especially that my first head of the department of Medicine, which is Dr. Henry Mackintosh himself had come here from Duke.\n\nSM: That shows your qualifications and how in demand your qualifications are as well and you are well-known to the Indian high officials, prime ministers and presidents so that, I know, came here, several of them and when Sri. P.V. Narasimha Rao Garu came, my husband Sri. Bhaskar Rao Mutyala, he helped them, manage and he had brought them with -- to your office as well and you all treated their heart trouble, so well, can you please let us know some of those interesting and intriguing experiences.\n\nVM: Well I was very fortunate to be in a position to participate in the healthcare management of these VIPs, not only from India, I was fortunate to take care of some head of the States and other VIPs of many countries, like Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, and in the Middle East, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, UAE, Oman, and maybe missing some Egypt. So I was very fortunate to take care of several patients from there as well. But let me tell you among the most gratifying experience that I had was at the very first big VIP and that was the President of India, Sri, Zail Singh.\n\nSM: Zail Singh.\n\nVM: That happened in 1982. I had already been here for a number of years, and during those years I had taken care of several VIPs from India as well as some business magnets from India. So my name was known there and particularly at AIIMS because not only I had some time in training there and I was on the faculty there for about 4 years.\n\n(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351#t=909.0,1197.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351/transcript/60425/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":")\nso my name was familiar to all of them and when the question came of heart trouble, the team there decided to come to Houston and they called me and I was very fortunate and he was very, very gracious patient, and one thing that it’s an interesting sentence that I use at that time. I had taken care of VIPs in India itself during the time I was at AIIMS, that most of the time the VIPs and their families and their private physicians try to influence your decision considerably. They use all the tactics and when President Zail Singh came with him came two senior physicians, one from AIIMS and one from the other big hospital there, it’s called Ram Manohar Lohia Hospital now. That time it was called Willingdon Hospital, and then one of his relative who was a physician and two of his daughters who were physicians so they were 5 physicians accompanying him.\n\nSo the very first day when we received President Zail Singh, we were just basically getting introduced and deciding what we will do, and so I asked him a very straightforward personal question in the presence of all those 5 physicians and some other close family members. I said, Honorable President Mr. Zail Singh, I have to ask you a question, and that question is, do you want me to treat you as a patient or treat you as a President and VIP, because as a patient I will do everything that I do for any patient and I will make sure that I do the maximum I can, I am capable of; but as a VIP I may have to deviate from what I think is the ideal way because of pressures.\n\nHe said, no question, treat me as an ordinary patient, and that was his gracious spirit and nature, and what that did, it did allow me to have the freedom to treat.\n\nSM: Make the right decisions.\n\nVM: Make the right -- one of the other physicians who was not from AIIMS was the Director General of PGI of Chandigarh. He was the other -- he had treated President Zail Singh earlier, so he was accompanying him and he was much more senior to me. He was the Director General of PGI.\n\nSM: Oh, yes, yes, yes.\n\nVM: So I had to make sure that I have the freedom to decide and once President Zail Singh gave me this permission then I did not feel intimated at all, and any time -- I was of course informing and consulting like any other, I wasn’t ignoring them but at the same time I was able to take the right decisions.\n\nSM: Excellent! I know you were very actively involved in the transfer of knowledge.\n\nVM: Yes.\n\nSM: Into India, Pakistan and other countries; now, my question in this area is, how successful is the transfer that is happening and how quick or slow they are able to and which country is advancing faster than the others.\n\nVM: I think India would be a perfect example and when we started that was in the late ’70s or ’80s, at that time cardiology, real cardiology in India was practically unknown, and just to give you an example, in all of UP which today you probably know, the population of UP is 200 million, just two-third of United States, at that time it was not that much, but anyway. There was not a single institution in all of UP, for that matter all of Northern India that could do real open heart surgery.\n\n(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351#t=1197.0,1483.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351/transcript/60425/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":")\nSo I felt like India is a place that I can be of some help. So I used to visit India at least once, but many times two or times a year and visit basically the big medical schools there and the big cities like Delhi, Bombay that now of course is Mumbai, Chennai, Calcutta, Bangalore, Jaipur, Lucknow, Kanpur, I was visiting all these and one time Ahmedabad also, and all of them were in an extremely preliminary stage of real cardiology, there was not even coronary and geography being done commonly like in all of Mumbai at that time there was only one physician that I could trust that he can do coronary angiogram, he was in Bombay Hospital.\n\nBut all the others were complete novices and not properly trained. And same was to of Delhi. So I used to go and spend time with them and sometimes they would organize international or national conference so I could participate in sharing some of our information with the big group of physicians, but spend time in the hospital with the hospital cardiologist and share with them whatever I could about this, and many of them visited Houston for 2 weeks, 3 weeks, 4 weeks, and we were able to let them really observe closely how things are done and that progressed very, very fast. And today not only the big cities but even what I would like to call tier-2 or tier-3 cities have this facility especially in doing angioplasty, stents and heart surgery, even tier-3 cities are having today. So I think India has in these 30 years made tremendous progress especially in cardiology, I can tell you.\n\nSM: Nalini ji, I know you are in a key role as you are part of a high society in Houston and very, very important activities, can you please do some comments on your experience, what you like, what are the challenges are, like that?\n\nNM: Well, I get involved everywhere where he does.\n\nSM: Yes.\n\nNM: He just finished telling you how busy he was with the work. So he would get involved when I would get pulled into it and then take it from there and whatever I could do, we have done, we have been involved in Indian community related activities, cultural and social. So wherever he goes he starts it and I takeover and --\n\nSM: Yeah, I understand.\n\nNM: We haven’t finished anybody, there is no particular project that I am involved and India House I can say I was very eager to have India House in Houston, and in the beginning people did not have a very good feeling about it, they tried to discourage, and now it’s flourishing and makes us feel very happy.\n\nSM: Tell us about your children and grandchildren, how many children you have?\n\nNM: I have one son. \n\nSM: Okay, where is he?\n\nNM: He is in Washington, DC, he is at Gallaudet University, he is Assistant Professor and --\n\nVM: Not an assistant he is -- \n\nNM: No, he is now currently working as the Dean of the University. He joined as Assistant Professor. So he is in academics, I tried my level best that he follow his father’s footstep, become a doctor, but he says that mom, I will be doctor but not the kind daddy, so he did his PhD from MIT in Linguistics, and academics is his interest and he is very happy, enjoying there. Grandchildren I don’t have any yet, some day I am hoping I will have but --\n\nVM: I think she is being very modest, can I add something?\n\nSM: Please!\n\nVM: In the days when I started here in Houston, I really was very busy and before our son was born since that time and after he was born I used to leave for hospital before he left his bed.\n(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351#t=1483.0,1807.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351/transcript/60425/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":")\n\nAnd frequently I would come home when he was already asleep. So Nalini did everything that any household requires, I was only taking care of the hospital and patients. I left in the early morning hours, came home late in the evening –\n\nNM: I used to – \n\nVM: I used to tease – a lot of people used to ask her, your husband is all the time in the hospital what do you do, so my answer used to be – \nNM: A lot of Indian patients who came from India that was their favorite question, doctor saab is so busy, how do you pass your time? \n\nVM: So, let me give you the answer to it – \n\nNM: No, but let – \n\nVM: I used to interrupt and I said she is the man of the house, everything that – \nNM: But that diminishes my role. \n\nVM: No, no in household -- \n\nNM; I cannot be the man of the house. \n\nSM: Man and woman of the house. \n\nVM: In household there are lot of activities that are traditionally the job of the man of the house, she was doing every single thing. I had no, I had absolutely nothing. \nNM: Doing thing is okay, making decisions; my son was born with the disability of hearing deficiency. His schooling, which school to take, what programs to introduce to him, it’s so happened that God gave him, gifted him with good brain, so he kept picking up everything. He was in a oral program, hearing children program so he picked up language, he went to Kinkaid School, went to Princeton, MIT so he has done –\n\nSM: Okay, and a professor. \n\nNM: Superbly well, I’d contributed – well, I was there to help him. \nVM: That is she is the one – \n\nNM: But there were times where we had to make certain decisions and I kind of – \n\nSM: You had to make for him too, for the both of you. \n\nNM: No, I wouldn’t have made it without his – \n\nSM: But both of you were right. \n\nNM: But I was sure that his support and the biggest support is the money support you need. \n\nSM: And then he had confidence in you.\n\nNM: He had confidence and – \n\nVM: No, I will give her the full credit of grooming my son, our son and making him what he is today. And it was very difficult at that time to imagine that a person born with disability and difficulty and not able to hear, he can do PhD from MIT and Honors, Graduation from Princeton so she gets all the credit for doing that. \n\nSM: It is a fact, you get the credit. And I want to get to – as you received so many several, several, several awards, including Hind Ratnam, please tell us some of those awards that are very meaningful to you. \n\nVM: I think for any professional person the most meaningful award is the one they get from their peers and the – \n\nNM: Those are the hardest too. \n\nSM: Hardest. \n\nVM: The two that I got being the Best Teacher of Texas Heart Institute, I got it twice, 5 years apart. So those two are very, very meaningful to me and I really appreciate that. And then others from American College of Cardiology and other from Peer Group, those are the most meaningful. \n\nSM: And I also want to ask about the future, what do you think of robotic procedures in health field, especially in heart related areas? I am just curious about it and about robotic technology in future health field. \n\nVM: Yeah, it is expanding and in our own hospital for almost 8 or 9 years we have been using robots for part of the surgery. It is not easily possible to do the entire with robotics, but in not just cardiology but in many other fields robotic surgery has gained prominence and the more important thing is what we call minimally invasive surgery, in that, instead of the old fashioned big incisions which require bigger time, longer time to heal and more complications, they can be avoided. \n\nSM: Okay. \n\nVM: And robotic surgery for heart is already being done and our hospital is doing it, but to make it almost complete robotic, I think is very difficult.\n\n(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351#t=1807.0,2106.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351/transcript/60425/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":")\nSM: Very difficult. You are instrumentally involved in founding several organizations in Houston and very active in several important areas like you mentioned, India House, and ICC, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351#t=2106.0,2120.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351/transcript/60425/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"or wearing a tie, can he show that to the camera there, that’s the tie that Naliniji designed when we had a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351#t=2120.0,2130.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351/transcript/60425/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in Houston in 2005, Congressional and Gandhi Statue etcetera. Please tell us some of these experiences. \n\nVM: Well, I think when I arrived here there were already few people in Houston, but very few families, but some of them had already initiated some group activities and we were here in the days when one of our friends that I think you have already interviewed Mr. Raj Syal, he used to bring once a month a movie, the old fashioned 35 mm movie and project it in one of the halls of University of Houston and all the 70, 80, 100 people of Indian community used to be assembled there and watch the movie. \nSo from those days I was interested in community organization, so ICC was my favorite and although I was never looking for any power, so I never had any kind of title of ICC in my 30, 40 years. but I always have from the day we were here until it was officially I think 1973, official Indian ICC was created and since then I have been member and working towards its success.\n\nAnd India House is really the outcome or you can say the birth of India House is based on ICC and I would like to point out for history purposes that when the decision was made to build a building, because ICC at that time used to be run from the garage of whoever the President was, so we needed a building. When the idea came, then Nalini was designated as the coordinator of the project to find land and get the land, and she is the one who attended the auction where the property was purchased. So India House now the property was purchased at an auction where she was the one. \n\nSM: Congratulations, that is the great success. \n\nNM: And the reason was all these people who are involved with this project, they were too busy with their professions and this auction was in the day time, nobody was available to go and be there to bid on the land, and me and a real estate agent, we did the work. \n\nSM: Dr. Mathur, have you ever, or how did you attempt to influence any public policy for the betterment of Indo-US relations? \n\nVM: That is another of my -- I can call it passion, but not as stronger passion as I have for India House. India House is my real passion even today, but the other one has been that and I can remember way back in 1984 I think it had to be, yes in 1984, 1980 when President Reagan was the first term started at that time Nalini decided to volunteer for some of the work, because both of use were interested. So she picked up making phone calls on his behalf so that – \n\nNM: On election day, to call people to come and vote.  \n\nVM: So that got us interested in the election process, so at that time one of the first Republican Texas Senator, Phil Gramm, we were very impressed by him because he served in the Congress as a member of the House of Representatives as a Democrat and during that time he had some opinions and projects that were more conservative rather than liberal.\n\n(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351#t=2130.0,2405.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351/transcript/60425/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":")\n\n But he was a Democrat and he kind of insisted that some of these should be done, and they wouldn't give him the leadership of the Democratic Party. They were of course in majority for years and years and years, they wouldn’t give him a chance, so he reigned. And then fought the by-election as a Republican and won. And after that the first election that he ran as a Senator, he succeeded, and this time it was his second term, after he had completed one term. So we were very much impressed by his credentials and devotion that he resigned from the Democratic Party and became Republican. So we attended events and got to know. \n\nSo what he used to do, he did it three times. I would get a call say on Wednesday afternoon that I am coming to Houston tomorrow -- I am coming there tonight, can you arrange a breakfast meeting with the Indian community tomorrow? I said, tomorrow, breakfast meeting? But I was successful three different times that we had in our house. So he came and we were able to -- we had good friends, we called them in the night and said, you better show up tomorrow, and they did come. \n\nSo our interest in the Republican Party developed at that time, and we were able to talk to him on many projects, especially those that were interested in -- that were of interest to India. And most recent example of that was about six years ago when Ambassador was Dr. Ronen Sen; I think he was the same year, or no, a couple of years after Mahatma Gandhi’s statue, so he was the ambassador.  And at that time President Bush was negotiating with nuclear arms deal ---\n\nNM:  Not nuclear arms, nuclear energy. \n\nVM:  Nuclear energy, nuclear energy project. And the Democratic Party was not in favor of that. So he needed the support both from here as well as from India. And he called us and said, can you -- you all have some connections with the politicians of this country, how can you help? So Ambassador Sen came here, and we had about 25 of Indian community leaders there, and he said, what is the interest of Indian government and India for this nuclear energy, and how we can talk?\n\nSo all of us talked to not only the representative from Texas, but we contacted our friends elsewhere in this country and talked to them about influencing their representatives. So I have been quite deeply involved with Republican Party elections then onwards. \n\nSM: Very good! Very, very interesting! I am going into a sensitive subject, being in highly visible and very significant and core health field in Houston, have you ever witnessed or noticed any discrimination personally or distantly?\n\nNM: You mean against -- within --\n\nSM: Color or racial?\n\nVM: In one sentence never. \n\nNM: One word.\n\nVM: One word I should say, never. Let me give you example of the opposite of that. Some of the patients that truly loved me are not necessarily the VIPs and other dignitaries, but those of us who are not so fortunate, mostly among the poorer class, and many of them are Afro-American, they love me really very much. Anytime they come, they hug me and all that. The reason for that is they can see that I don't have any feelings like that and they know that I am taking care of them\n\n(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351#t=2405.0,2700.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351/transcript/60425/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":")\n\nSM: I meant the other way. I meant --\n\nVM: No, never, never. \n\nAmong the educated and professional people, I have never had in this country. But let me just -- you remind me of one very strange example of the other side, how affectionate they have been. \n\nMy first professor at Harvard, his name, God bless his soul, Dr. Lewis Dexter, I worked with him for a couple of years when I was in training day. And during that time or soon after that, I finished training with him. I was still for two more years in Boston, but I had a different mentor. That was the time I went to India and we got married and we came here. \n\nSo when we arrived, naturally we paid respects to him and visited. But in the one year that we were here after -- both of us were here, we were married, there was only one year that we spent, after that we left for India. In that one year can you believe that we were invited seven times to his house for Christmas, Thanksgiving, Independence Day, etcetera, or some private function. Both of us went there seven times, and I was not his fellow at that time. I had already completed. And this is the level of affection that I have been treated with. \n\nSo I have nothing, but the best -- all educated people here. \n\nSM: That might also answer my next question, of course and that is, how integrated your family and you are in Houston mainstream community?\n\nVM: Say that again?\n\nNM: How --\n\nSM: Integrated your family and you are?\n\nNM: If you mean integration that we have bunch of American friends?\n\nSM: Yeah. \n\nNM: I would say no, because I am a very private type of person, so I don’t go out and make lot of friends. But whenever we go out within the professional community and his colleagues, their families, we are very good. I mean, we are treated as one of the community and we treat them as close friends.  But other than, immediate neighbors, sometimes not even that. I don't have a large -- I don’t have a bridge club, I don’t have that. That’s partly because I am that way. \n\nSM: Right, right! What major events like 9/11 in the United States influenced personally or professionally?\n\nVM: I think the first event that has left a very important memory and mark was President Kennedy's assassination, because I was in Boston at that time, and you can imagine what Boston’s feeling was, because President Kennedy belonged to Boston. He was educated there, lived there, his family lived there. \n\nNM: He was born there. \n\nVM: Of course. Yeah, he was born in Boston, yeah. So when he was assassinated, there were 72 hours of nonstop TV without any commercial, and I was glued to TV, as many hours as I was not in the hospital. So that left a very prominent mark in my memory. \n\nBut I will tell you what was somewhat shocking to me. The biggest shock came on the day of the assassination; it was at that time 1:30 in the afternoon in Boston when he passed away. And there were no TV or radio in every room, but there was one TV in a big floor ward. So everybody went there, and we learned within a few minutes that he has been assassinated. And I could not work after that. I stayed there and talked about everything, but at 4:00 o'clock, that same afternoon, we had a statistics class that I had decided to attend to improve my statistics, and I go there, and I was thinking that there will be five or six persons there and he will decide not to do anything, because everybody was absolutely struck. So the teacher comes there, the instructor, and there were about 50 people in the classroom. \n\n(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351#t=2700.0,3003.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351/transcript/60425/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":")\n\nAnd he said that this is such a shocking thing, and the sentence that came out from his mouth I can never forget. He said, well, this is a professional hazard. I said, what is this man talking, where is he living? He says a young President has been assassinated and he is saying this is a professional hazard? And he went about his class. I had to leave. I could not handle that.\n\nSM: Which I will call, this particular reaction, his reaction and your, cultural.\n\nNM: Cultural difference.\n\nSM: It’s very cultural.\n\nVM: It was a bit cultural shock to me that somebody can utter these words, and I have never forgotten that sentence or his face, that person.\n\nSM: Okay. I want to ask you more practical I guess, what do you think of interracial marriages and also I want to further ask you, what do you think about the future generation, Indian background in Houston, will they maintain their identity as Indians for a long time or will they be mixed in the melting pots?\n\nVM: Okay. Can I answer this? \n\nNM: Let me ask you --\n\nSM: I want both of your answers.\n\nNM: I want to ask you first, are you worried about that, the interracial marriages, this should be a concern?\n\nSM: This is not my personal --\n\nNM: Or people, not you. I mean, would people be concerned about that?\n\nSM: It’s just to find out what our first immigrants feel and think or worry or not worry, you know like that \n\nNM: In that context I understand.\n\nSM: So what do you think, go ahead and tell us?\n\nNM: We were all part of it and we were very concerned that our child should know our religion; our child should know how we live, how we respect elders, what customs and cultures we follow. So we taught them and they followed it, but some of them have gone and made their own choices. So I personally don’t consider it a change or a bad change; it’s a change, but I don’t consider it bad.\n\nVM: Let me give you my -- add something to this. This is the kind of theme or topic that I have had occasion to address. \n\nSM: Interesting!\n\nVM: And I have a favorite sentence, and that is for the first 20, 25 years of staying in Houston, I was very concerned that we are going to lose our heritage and our culture, because the second generation, our children were wanting to completely discard and disown anything Indian and were adopting everything American. \n\nBut when the second generation became full adults and working and their children started becoming teenagers and all that, I had to completely reverse my fear, because -- and I have said that to many, we both are very much interested in music. So we have had the good luck of attending several graduations and that kind of events for children, and one sentence that I have repeated many times, I was afraid when we were exposed to our children, which was second generation, but now seeing the third generation I have no fear at all, because this -- the same children of ours who were wanting to discard everything Indian now are forcing their children to come back.\n\nSo the third generation is -- I am sure you know how many dance schools and music schools are in Houston and I would say hardly any child today who is a teenager from our generation, most of our grandchildren --\n\nNM: But the interesting thing is they are bringing their friends, American friends into our culture. They are showing interest in our culture. So the assimilation is taking place from both end and it’s an exciting thing.\n\nVM: And I think interracial marriage will strengthen it rather than weaken it.\n\n(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351#t=3003.0,3297.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351/transcript/60425/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":")\n\nSM: Right! I know we are getting close to concluding. I know you have published, how many books?\n\nVM: Not too many books, but --\n\nSM: I know I have read somewhere.\n\nVM: Not that many books, but I published about 170 publications.\n\nSM: 170 publications!\n\nNM: My son has published a book.\n\nSM: Very good! And we didn’t get a chance to talk about all the publications and all that; maybe we can have another interview in the future. \n\nVM: I can maybe summarize in one sentence what I think my research has contributed to this country. When I started here in Houston, at that time bypass surgery, which everybody knows, heart bypass surgery, was very much going on in Houston, but all over the East Coast, including Harvard, Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Washington, they had not really picked up and they were extremely critical of that. \n\nSo when Dr. DeBakey and Dr. Cooley published their good results of surgery, all the big shots of East Coast were highly critical and dubious about the validity of the results. So I was fortunate enough to publish the very first publication in the world literature, which gave through a randomized controlled study credibility and proof that bypass surgery is not a hoax, it is real, and it benefits people. \n\nAnd it was hard to convince the East Coast big shots, but they could not really ignore the randomized study proving that, and then slowly, now of course it’s worldwide popular, but at that time even USA was critical of bypass surgery. So I was a participant in that. \n\nSM: Excellent! Congratulations on that! And I know we also didn’t get a chance to talk about your valuable experience with Dr. Cooley and your experience --\n\nVM: More than 40 years.\n\nSM: Yes, yes! We didn’t get a chance to talk about that.\n\nNM: You will have to write a book now.\n\nSM: But, but, but, I am so happy and fortunate to talk to you both and talk about your experiences and about what you have contributed to Houston and your experiences in Houston and we thank you extremely, humbly thank you.\n\nNM: Thank you!\n\nSM: And Oral History Project, Indo American Oral History Project and Foundation of Indian Studies and myself, we all thank you for coming here!\n\nVM: We are very happy and honored that you asked us, and especially Dr. Vavilala, who is the Founder of this Indo-American Oral History Project and also Founder of Foundation for India Studies. I have supported that organization in the past also, and I think it’s a very good one. \nNM: But I had to convince him to come and do this interview.\n\nSM: Oh, thank you for convincing him! Thank you! And thank you from Foundation for India Studies and Indo American Oral History Project, its CC and Houston Public Library! Thank you!\nNM: Thank you!\nVM: Thank you very much!\nNM: Thank you very much!\nSM: We are continuing our very interesting interview with Dr. Mathur and Shrimati Naliniji. And Dr. Mathur, I know you had lots and lots of experience in working with Dr. Cooley for 40 years and also about your publications. Please go ahead and let us know some of your interesting experience that you would like to share with us.\n\nVM: Thank you! It has been really my privilege and honor to have the opportunity to work with Dr. Cooley and his associates for more than 40 years. And Dr. Cooley is a person that I will call, he is not really a regular human, he has to be a superhuman. And the more you know about him, the more impressed you are about him. \nFor one thing, it is sometimes very difficult for many of us to remember the long names that some of our Indians --\nNM: Especially Indians.\n\nVM: Some of them are very, very long, and some of the names from the area that you come in, especially Kerala, Tamil Nadu, Andhra, some of them are extremely long names and everybody else has difficulty in remembering them. \n(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351#t=3297.0,3610.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351/transcript/60425/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":")\nSM: And also hard to pronounce. \n\nVM: And pronounce. Dr. Cooley, you won’t believe, has amazing memory and recollection of names. It has happened so many times that we are talking about some previous patient and I have to kind of bring up that patient by giving an example of something that he had or some complication. He will say, oh, you mean Mr. Sundaralingam? I will say, yes, yes. I was shocked that he not only could pronounce the name, but he remembered who I am talking about. \n\nSM: Full name?\n\nVM: Full name. And he has remembered many of the names. He also has a little soft corner for India. He has himself been to India at least I would say 5 or 6 times, and twice I had the occasion to go with him to India, because they had organized a big international conference and they invited both Dr. Cooley and myself, so I had a long chat with him in the flight and then once we were there in the hotel and other things. \nSo at that time I got to know him at a personal level a lot, not only is he brilliant, he has amazing memory, and memory of names. And the thing that made him famous is not just his skill, but the way he performs surgery. The reason why the results of surgery at Houston and Texas Heart Institute have been so glaringly different than others is the skill that he has, and the skill is not only in actual surgery but the speed of surgery, because in something like open heart surgery, as you probably know, for the actual duration of the key segment of the operation, when the heart, lung bypass machine is operational, all functions of the body are suspended and they are running on the machine. So longer you have to use the machine, more damage you do to the body. \n\nSo if the operation takes three hours of that segment, the body gets lot of damage, and if you have a little unhealthy body, then the complications make it very bad, and because of the speed at which he does the surgery, besides perfection, the results have been very good, because this time has been compressed compared to another time. \nAnd I -- just yesterday there was news about our former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, he got a second operation yesterday or day before, something like that; when he had his first operation we read in the papers that the operation, he had a quadruple bypass, quadruple bypass, they spent eight hours in his surgery, out of which I am sure plenty of time, probably three hours were in the open heart segment. So at that time we were doing 40 open heart operation everyday, so we couldn’t believe how can they take 8 hours in doing one bypass operation when we do 40 in one day.\n\nSo what it is, when you watch Dr. Cooley operating, it doesn’t look like he is slow, because he does not have a wasted movement motion. So when no waste motion has to be repeated or corrected, then it doesn’t take time. So when you watch him it looks like it’s so easy and he is doing it without any effort and the operation is over. You say, how could it be over? So that is his genius. \nAnd the results of open heart surgery at Texas Heart Institute, we are very proud of. And one particular statistic that comes to my mind, how we got that kind of experience in Houston, this would be somewhere in the late 80s, I don’t remember the year, it could be 1988 or 1989 or something like that, there were some statistics from New York.  \n(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351#t=3610.0,3903.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351/transcript/60425/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":") \nThat particular 12 month year, they had done in all the State of New York something like 800 open heart operations, and at that time there were 38 hospitals in New York State, 18 of them in New York City and the remaining in other cities of New York State. Out of those total 38 hospitals, this is the number they have done. In that same year in St. Luke's Hospital in Texas Heart Institute we had done 900 plus operations in one hospital. So that's how we got the experience. While others were doing 20, 30, 40 a year, we were doing 900 a year. So everything that we did gave us lot of experience, and I got the best memories of patients recovering fast and doing so well that I was participating in all these things and enjoying the good results, and that was very good. \n\nNM: Happy, healthy patients.\n\nVM: And Dr. Cooley had confidence in his colleagues. So the way all these 40 operations a day could be done, he would stick to only his time of actual surgery; the rest of the time he completely gave the authority and responsibility --\n\nNM: Freedom.\n\nVM: And freedom to manage the patient. So as a cardiologist I was taking care of the patient just as we send him inside the operating room, up to that point, and the minute he came out of the operating room I was in charge again and taking care of him. So much so that many of my patients think I am the surgeon, because they see my face when they are going in and they see my face when they are coming out. And then I am taking care of them till they leave the hospital. So if you ask a typical Indian patient of mine who has come from India he will say I did the surgery.\n\nSM: But that's important. I mean, that is one segment and then taking care of the patient and all the good result to come depends on the care afterwards.\n\nNM: Everybody is doing his part in a very expert way.\n\nVM: I think one of the things that, especially patients who came from India were very, very grateful that we were able to combine the skills of Dr. Cooley and his team in surgery, and the personal care and the culture that I brought from India, because in Indian culture there is a very close relationship between two human beings, whether it is family members or it is a professional membership. And even today, when I go -- lately I stopped doing actual procedures myself. Previously my passion was doing catheterizations, placing stents and all that, but now that I have given up as I am growing older. But anytime I go to hospital intensive care unit, where I literally spent my life, I get hugs from all the nurses. They say, oh, Dr. Mathur, come in. So that affection that I experienced from the staff has been unbelievable.\n\nOne more thing if I can add.\n\nSM: Please.\n\nVM: Some of my most prized possessions; there are about 10 or 12 letters that I received from widows of patients that after several years we could not keep them going, but some of them I treated for seven, eight years, some for 15 years, some for longer, but we could not save them after that. The letter that they have written, handwritten letter expressing their gratitude; every time I even think of those letters, I look at them, I cannot stop my tears, because they are my prized possessions.\n\n(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351#t=3903.0,4200.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351/transcript/60425/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":")\nSM: That's really good. .\n\nVM: Yeah, that tells me that what I did was worth it.\n\nNM: Satisfaction, reward.\n\nVM: Otherwise, how can anybody spend 12, 14 hours in the hospital day after day, it was because of this love and affection and gratitude that you receive, and when you see the smile on the patient's face and the family member of that patient, that is what makes it perfect.\n\nNM: But this phenomena is changing so fast.\n\nVM: It's partly my Indian culture.\n\nNM: That was his thing, but now hospital is more automated, more computer oriented.\n\nSM: Less personal.\n\nNM: Less personal, that would be a really sad thing to happen, to medicine in this country.\n\nSM: So what do you think of the future, of our Houston Medical Center?\n\nVM: I think lot of changes have already taken place, even in St. Luke’s. St. Luke’s used to be called St. Luke’s Episcopal Hospital, because Episcopal Church owned it. It is nonprofit, but they were in charge. So at corporate level all the trustees were those picked by the church and the chairman of the board of trustees of St. Luke’s was the Bishop of Episcopal Church, always. This past year, 2013, the church sold the hospital and now we are owned by Catholic Charities Initiative. \nSM: Another church?\n\nVM: Yeah, it is the largest entity running healthcare facilities; 79 in the country, Catholic Charities, run 79. Out of those I think 30 plus are hospitals, others are other healthcare facilities. So they are now the owners of St. Luke’s Hospital, and they also have relationship with Baylor College of Medicine and Texas Heart Institute. So gradually we are becoming part of Catholic Charities rather Episcopal Church.  \n\nSM: But are there any major changes?\n\nVM: Slowly in administration a lot of changes, but some of the changes that are taking place are the result of the new Obamacare.\n\nSM: Oh yeah, that is another big change. \n\nVM: It's official name is not Obamacare, but that’s how everybody knows it. \n\nSM: That’s what everybody calls it. \n\nNM: Affordable Care Act is the official name, ACA. But that has made tremendous changes, and if you allow me to dwell on some of the changes, couple of them I would like to share, because it may be --\n\nSM: It's down to current time so it's important. \n\nVM: So what it has done, the premise on which this Affordable Care Act was conceived and passed, the basic premises were incorrect, and there were hypothesis that were not based on solid evidence and they have failed, but unfortunately the administration is unwilling to accept that and the damage is taking place in patient care. \n\nSM: Doctor-patient relationship is changing. \n\nVM: And I will tell you what happened yesterday, yesterday because of that. Yesterday I had a couple that I have been taking care of for a number of years, and they are husband and wife, and they have their own independent business and both of them help each other in running that. Yesterday they had made an appointment and they both showed up. The husband has crossed the age of Medicare so now he is covered by Medicare. And he had Medicare AARP. \n\nSM: Supplement.\n\nVM: Supplement. And it was -- he was part of a HMO; I hope you know HMO is Health Maintenance Organization. And one of the rules of HMO is that you have a certain group which are members of HMO and those are the only physicians that the insurance will cover. If you go outside of that, then you are like a self-paid patient. The wife is still not Medicare age, so she had the regular insurance. \n\n(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351#t=4200.0,4515.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351/transcript/60425/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":")\nSo both of them came fully expecting to be seen. When they arrived we saw they had different insurance card and then we had to very sadly tell them that the husband’s insurance has eliminated me from their insurance coverage. So if I see him, the insurance will not cover his expenses at all. It will be like complete -- he has to pay all of it. So Medicare will not pay either, because if they say it's not covered, then Medicare will not pay and this AARP insurance will not pay. \n\nSo they talked to the insurance agent and they spent -- I asked them that I will be willing to see you anyway, but talk to the insurance agent if they can do something. So they reached the conclusion that in a few days they can change their insurance and they will rather wait and not accept my generosity and take an obligation for that reason. So I saw the lady completely. \n\nSM: Because she has insurance? \n\nVM: She has insurance, but husband, I felt so bad; that is just yesterday. I felt so bad about that. \n\nNM: But that’s not your doing. \n\nVM: No, it is not my doing, but this is the change. And what it has done personally to my life, again, it may sound like I am trying to complain, but it's a fact.\n\nSM: Reality.\n\nVM: It's reality. On many days because of the compulsion to use I mean everything computerized, health record, we are required. And if we do not fulfill that, they test it for meaningful use. So if they find that I am not doing meaningful use, I am just kind of passing over it, then I don’t get paid. So because of that I have to bring home homework which I have not done in 50 years of my practice. I have not brought anything of the hospital home to work. The only thing I did at home was research part, but patient care material I never brought home. I had taken that decision that when I come home I am family, because that is so few hours for family. \n\nBut now I have to bring it home, and there are many, many days of a week, sometimes three days in a week that I sleep at 2 o’clock or later to complete this electronic medical record and that is my personal burden. \n\nNM: Lot of burden.\n\nVM: And you can imagine sleeping at 2, but it's like --\n\nSM: That is tough for both the doctors and the patients. \n\nVM: And in new care --\n\nNM: Lot of uncertainty to patient.\n\nVM: Unfortunately, what is happening because of that one-third of all doctors have already stopped taking care of Medicare patients, and many more will in a year or two, because I am somewhat more tolerant and patient, so I am willing to do that, but I doubt that majority of doctors will; majority of younger doctors will not do that. So the quality of care will go down. \n\nAnd that was one of the premises that they can improve the quality of care, while simultaneously cutting the cost down. They are contradictory to each other, it cannot happen, and it's not happening. The quality of care already has gone down and there are now restrictions because of this new law, restrictions, and the day is not very far when somebody who is 80 and over breaks a hip joint and they will say, well, you are too old for any surgery, the day is not too far when that may happen.\n(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351#t=4515.0,4801.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351/transcript/60425/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":")\nNM: On that sad note.\n\nSM: Yeah, but I want us to get back to our good notes. Now tell us about what other organizations and associations that either be founded or --\n\nVM: I will not take credit for founding any, I did help to support many, the only one that I would say creation that Nalini and myself will take as India House, because that one from day zero we have been involved, and not only involved very actively involved, both time-wise and financially. But in terms of support we support at least 20 to 30 national charities, many of them are health connected.\n\nVM: 20-30 national charities many of them are health connected.\n\nSM: Health connected.\n\nVM: And of those I am very fond of veterans and I support I think I counted that day, nine veterans organizations annually because my career started at Veterans Hospital here in Baylor College of Medicine; Baylor College of Medicine from day one of Houston, and first three years I spent at Veterans Hospital and then at St. Luke’s.\n\nSM: At St. Luke’s.\n\nVM: So I am very fond of that and another 20 or more national organizations and among the Houston and Indian organizations I am simply a member of all national societies where Indians have a separate organization like AAPI is one of them which I am very actively participant, and I had the honor and privilege to run the Annual Convention in Houston in 2005.\n\nSM: In 2005.\n\nVM: And American College of Cardiology as a Indian connection, Indian Organization and live member of that, and there are 2 or 3 other professionals like Texas Medical Association et cetera. But in Indian community organizations I am also very deeply involved. We visit at least I would say 10 or 12 Indian temples and not just Hindu but many other Indians also and support them and we support several art related organizations including dance schools, music schools, tabla schools, and cultural organization et cetera.\n\nNM: Symphony.\n\nVM: Houston Symphony so we are supporters and participants.\n\nSM: Very good. Now I want to ask you what would be the -- your message that you would like to give to new comers may be in the health field to Houston?\n\nVM: Well, we do welcome and encourage young students who are in medicine or want to go to medicine or already have completed but now they are trying to come for residency and specialized training, we help them and the help is all around, I am not the only one. Most of us try to help, but unfortunately the future of immigrants in medical field is not very promising because there are so many medical graduates from this country and then there is equal or more number of American medical graduates from the neighboring countries.\n\nSM: Right.\n\nVM: Countries like Mexico.\n\nNM: Islands.\n\nVM: And many islands they all have medical schools with 500 annual graduates, whereas in USA itself most medical schools graduate only 120 or 150 graduates per year and these people are graduating 500 per year and most of them are American citizens, so when they come back here they do get some preference.\n\n(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351#t=4801.0,5105.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351/transcript/60425/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":")\nand they are now overcrowding all the available training positions and at a given time it’s very unfortunate but about 5,000 medical graduates from India are in this country looking for a training position like residency, it is becoming very hard.\n\nI have been very fortunate that I have been able to help several of them actually enter regular residency after they spend few months with us as an observer, many of them, and only yesterday a medical student from Pakistan came and she is in the final year of her medical school in Islamabad so she wants to spend the summer here to see how we practice so we accepted her yesterday.\n\nSM: I think our niece, Monica, did do some observing or something like that in your area.\n\nVM: Monica, last name?\n\nSM: Mutyala.\n\nVM: Oh, she did, yes, okay.\n\nSM: You mentioned to me when we met.\n\nVM: Yes -- no, we have several and some of them have had outstanding because we are talking about history of Houston, let me give you a very good example.\n\nSM: Okay.\n\nVM: I don’t know how long you have been in Houston, but if you remember 40 years ago, there was only one Indian store that was called Jay Store.\n\nSM: Jay Store, I remember when we came in ’81, Jay Store is the only store that was there.\n\nVM: You know what it is named Jay Store?\n\nSM: No, why?\n\nVM: It’s named after a boy Jay. His parents Mahesh and Rupa Vyas, they opened this store and Jay is their oldest son so they named the store Jay. When he was in high school, he was doing his high school in Kincaid. When he was in high school there was a requirement that you spend one month as an intern in any field, you can go to a lawyer, you can go to a dentist, you can go to an engineer, businessman or anyone and spend time to see what they do, any profession. So he at that time, back in those days, my name was quite bit around in Houston Community and I knew Mahesh and Rupa Vyas, so they asked me, would you mind if he works as a high school senior? I said, sure.\n\nHe was very, very bright, brilliant, so he spent one month and he learned so much that the nurses thought he is a resident.\n\nSM: He is a resident.\n\nVM: Because he happens to be quite tall also, tall and robust, so they thought he is a resident and they were asking him sometime that can you do this, can you do this et cetera. Now he is a senior faculty member of Harvard and a gifted professor --\n\nSM: Wow!\n\nVM: And he is a MD-PhD –\n\nSM: Wow!\n\nVM:  -- in Neurology, Neurosciences; now he is a senior faculty member at Harvard.\n\nSM: Wow!\n\nVM: So it is so gratifying to see him get started as a high school student, and I have another one like that also, you probably know him also, you know the Executive Director of Indian-American Chamber of Commerce Mr. Jagdip Ahluwalia.\n\nSM: Jagdip?\n\nVM: You probably know him, his son, Rohan is his name; he was also in high school.\n\nSM: Oh, high school too, okay.\n\nVM: And then he asked through his parents, so I said, sure, come and spend a month. Now he has completed his, not only MD but residency, and he is in his fellowship now. So these two are Houston boys from high school and many were in medical school from that time and it has been so -- it is very rewarding -- \n\nSM: Very nice. \n\nVM: -- to see the youngsters grow up.\n\nSM: I wanted to ask you, how often do you go to India when you get a chance to go to India, I know professionally you have -- \n\nVM: In the old days I used to go once or twice and I think one time four times.\n\nNM: Every time he went I went with him.\n\nVM: But now it’s about once a year.\n\nSM: Once a year, you are still making once a year trip before you --\n\nNM: That’s why -- well, because the traveling has become a very nuisance thing now, so it’s no longer – \n\n(","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351#t=5105.0,5402.0"},{"id":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351/transcript/60425/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":")\nSM: Oh, security and all that.\n\nVM: Yeah, traveling is not so much fun.\n\nSM: Right. Nalini ji, I would like you to give us some comments about how Houston influenced, or communities in Houston influenced you and your family?\n\nNM: Oh, well, I am sure there is lot of influence and we have now lived so long in this city it seems like we belong here.\n\nSM: You are a part of Houston.\n\nNM: So as far as influencing me only others can tell I feel like part of --\n\nSM: Yes, and Houston is growing and we are all growing.\n\nNM: Yeah, the growth and changes in Houston we have seen two ups and two downs. Now we are coming back again. In ’80s it was all energy. Houston was energy in the State. When we came it was medical or they were coming new building every year, new hospitals and lot of growth in the health industry; am I right this is still the biggest employer?\n\nSM: Houston Medical Center.\n\nNM: Medical Center, yes.\n\nSM: How many -- I forgot, your husband told me but I forgot.\n\nVM: I think it’s over 100,000.\n\nNM: Then became the energy industry and energy burst, everybody left and hard to sell houses, but we are coming up again.\n\nSM: I worked in energy industry for Chevron and that’s where I took my retirement.\n\nVM: Houston really is famous for it being the Energy Capital of the world and in many areas even the health industry –\n\nSM: Oh yes.\n\nVM:  -- in at least some fields of health industry, Houston is considered the top.\n\nSM: Yes, definitely.\n\nVM: And then NASA, in the space industry.\n\nSM: NASA, did you --\n\nVM: Unfortunately it didn’t.\n\nNM: So to answer your question that how would -- we are very good friends here, we have good restaurants, we have good entertainment and thanks all.\n\nSM: Yes, yes, yes.\n\nNM: We are very content, very satisfied living here.\n\nSM: You both are happy Houstonians, right?\n\nVM: Definitely.\n\nNM: Definitely.\n\nSM: Again, thank you so, so, so much, it is really touching.\n\nVM: Well, let me close by one thing.\n\nSM: Please!\n\nVM: I have been able to do whatever I have because of the blessings that I have had the privilege of receiving from many, many of my satisfied patients and among them at least 6 or 7 heads of international religious organizations and I had the privilege of serving them and they have given me their best blessings.\n\nSM: You are blessed.\n\nVM: Even my stethoscope was blessed by one of them. You know Swaminarayan Sanstha BAPS, and Pramukh Swami blessed my stethoscope as well besides blessing me, and similarly many other big time religious organizations heads have blessed me for taking care of their health, so I feel very privileged and I think those blessings have made me whoever I am today.\n\nSM: Excellent!\n\nVM: So I am very thankful to all those.\n\nSM: Excellent! Thank you, thank you, thank you again, and thank you Foundation of Indian Studies.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://houstonlibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2436/collection_resources/108906/file/210351#t=5402.0,5654.42133"}]}]}]}